jjsrader

If you wanna' get really OCD about it I would (when hair is wet) apply just very small amounts of Dermatch (diffused w/water) w/fingertips or applicator brush from your mid-vertex blending forward to near your hairline. I find fingers work better than applicator on scalp if you separate your hair for each small zone going forward. This would cut the contrast from your frontal hairline 'zone' and soften the transition from your frontal hairline of transplanted hair and create a bit of a shadow effect into the hairline zone just behind your frontal hairline. Some girls use mineral-based eyeshadow powder w/brushes to do the same thing or use root-zone touch ups. I find the powdery products on the scalp are too sensitive to clumping or patchy spots. So Dermatch is really the absolute top product for larger zones. You could use a minor-touch up of your very frontal zone (I'm being very picky 'cause I also would like a bit more in the very frontal zone to break the contrast of darker hair w/white skin) 'cause you have visual gaps. Probably only us transplant guys are this critical of your frontal hairline. At regular glance I would be totally checking out your eyebrows and wondering what hair paste/clay/wax you were using to get nice clumping high off your scalp w/your longer hairs. Overall, your use of Caboki is top notch and the way you are doing it is sneaky smart mixing w/other thickeners and then going for product that gives your hair a bit of natural sheen afterwards. Even fibers like Hairatin (I consider this the best fiber product) need a bit of blending that is very subtle along w/other products to get the best results - you are doing that exact process, imho. Just my .02 cents. I was a licensed cosmetologist whilst I attended University to get my degrees, as was my older brother. That's just my critical-eye perspective for a guy that wants to go all out.

I change hair color frequently - sometimes using demi-permanent to go very dark (blackest black) - then sometimes all the way back to permanent hair color (using an experienced colorist) of sandy blonde/lightest blonde. Dermatch has 'discs' for all the base colors and w/really good brushes - that's my base (if I'm doing my hair and feel like putting some time in). After that I'll use a root plumper plus that lifts and separates my hair at the scalp level but doesn't overdry. I find this gives a bit of hairs at the very root line a boost that Dermatch can sometimes overwhelm. After that, I'll sometimes use just a pinch of Prothik as a spray (but rarely). I've tried about 10 fibers in the last 20 years (mostly out of boredom) - the light-diffusing properties (doesn't give off typically brashy 'off-color' overtones other fibers do) of hairatin are the best I've ever used. I rarely use it but if I want a super boost; it's the most natural. I find all these products work best w/proper volumizing routines (shampoo/conditioners/mousse/root plumpers/finishing dry sprays/dry pastes & styling creams for thinner hair volume & heat-protecting products w/a blow dryer etc...) and really learning how to blow dry the hair properly for different purposes (if applicable). Finally, I use deep-conditioning oils and treatments every week to keep my hair very soft and shiny and healthy 'cause all the thickeners can be a bit harsh on hair at times - even though when my hair is lighter I basically don't use any fibers or mineral-based scalp concealers. Just keeps my very fine and bone-straight hair strong & healthy looking. My day to day? About one night a week just a blend of dermatch and high-end eye shadow blends (w/the proper brush) to minimize the color of my scalp contrast. I have about 45% of my natural density in my frontal hairline and transition zone & nearly 50% thru frontal 40% of my scalp - going back to crown and the last part of the back vertex I'm probably at 65-75% of normal density. In my crown probably 80% of normal density. So, when I'm sandy blonde and/or lightest blondest blonde there is very little scalp contrast (I'm extremely fair/white skinned) - I might use some combination of the above every now and then but not on the regular. With darker tones, more frequently, maybe 6-8X's per month. Like alot of transplant guys, us very picky guys know the best people to cut our hair due to the surgeries we have had & are quite knowledgeable on products & care that gives us the biggest bang for our bucks for this silly vanity we spent so much money on. I'm thinking of doing SMP or Mark Weston for 'base' down the road but since I change colors I'm not sure which 'base color' is neutral enough for very dark to very light hair and in between? If that even exists. At the gym, nothing & I wear a bandana or large sweatband or hat just so I can just concentrate on working out and not give any attention to how my hair looks. 💲🙄

Do alot of research on hairpiece forums. I would just get creative and use a tiny hairpiece w/crown whorl details and make sure the hair is non-processed w/cuticle intact and matches your hair diameter and 'wave' nearly 100% - w/a perfect color match the blending would be nearly seamless. Maybe even a very thin/fine partial w/less density that you bump up ever so slightly w/Dermatch or very subtle amount of hairatan fibers (they deflect/diffuse light best when blended w/scalp and real hair). Good luck w/your eventual decision. Or you could get another crown surgery - say 1.5K grafts and work w/like a 20-25% of natural density and use concealer products that help w/the 'base' you've established.

Dude - w/your native hair caliber and density - I would think you are near 10K availability for FUE unless your head is really small. You could literally take fue extractions from a huge donor area over time as you get older and keep up w/your very slow hairloss.

I apologize and will let this thread take its long & winding road forward. Okay, delete my post. I'll try and keep my comments objective going forward. ty. peace...

That was me; you are correct sir! Always remember, physicans are real people too - we are talking about difference in doctor approaches in the end.

H&W Asian techs are MILES ahead of Erdogan's techs - it's not even close. 1) Better intelligence & hand-eye coordination 2) Longer/better more experienced training. 3) I am sure the average age of H&W techs is older and I am 100% sure that the vast majority of hair techs employed by H&W have some medical background (Nurse, etc...) 4) I guarantee H&W techs interact real-time and in so much better granular detail with each doctor. 5) Finally, H&W took some of Erdogan's best of the best initial talent - had their techs interact and now H&W FUE is top 5 in the world. Simple as. -------------------- Erdogan's approach now is ludicrous. Mr. 50K gross per day and he chills in his 9 monitor room 75% of his day. Have you noticed how he dis-engaged from the forums? He'll take the hits here and expand his marketing (don't get me started on his marketing youtube videos from years ago) and hire more 20 year-old Turkish girls w/no medical background and limited training and keep ballin'~~ Some shameful ethics imho. It's a money grab now and he is looking to optimize his profit model w/the least amount of personal involvement as possible. It's a factory w/average results - and I suspect a lower-than FUE survival rate than top-tier FUE surgeons. Oh, the techs who are supposedly examining each graft under a microscope probably aren't even doing that 100% of the time or correctly. Finally, although I believe Erdogan's incision reception sites are angled properly, those techs are just banging those grafts in there as fast as they can while they laugh and listen to music and gossip among themselves in a foreign language. It's a shame. Had he stayed intimately involved in 1 surgery per day, used his most experienced techs (2 or 3) that are the best of the best and he had a bit more artistic approach to hairlines - this guy could be charging $4-6 USD per graft or maybe even more and not have to be a factory. Turkey really is a moneygrab for 99% of the surgeons there. Erdogan is building up his wealth quickly once he saw he could automate his earlier work. That, to me for a physician, is laugable.

Hey Legend! This patient has extremely fine/thin-caliber hair w/a big skin/hair-color contrast and a massive family history of alot of balding. He's going to be a NW5+ or NW6 - so it really doesn't matter if he wants to proceed slowly over time. If his Artas harvested grafts survived just like other FUE extraction methods - what difference does it make? I think Artas even has small mm punches now - down to .7 and .8mm. I recall Arocha, H&W and other top clinics buying the machine - although I think they realized eventually it was ALOT more work for them in the long run than extracting via mechanized fue punches (AROCHA) or manual w/technicians doing the work (H&W). Also, this doctor is showing a small procedure on a guy w/alot of balding already and less-than desirable hair characteristics - so apples to apples I always say. Many of the smaller FUE procedures we see on this site are very young guys w/'in-their 20's' hair qualities and superior donor quality and very exceptional hair characteristics (caliber and wave). I would consider Dr. Rosanelli a 'boutique' surgeon - and I bet he does too. His career is based on conservative work that he feels should hold up 20-30+ years over time. I am sure alot of his clients are high-net worth and even if you are worth mid 7 figures and have a family history of alot of balding and you hit your 50's and 60's, if you went HUGE young and blew out your donor, with the progressive nature of hairloss that intensifies as one gets older (40+) - those guys don't want to have to explain visible excessive fue scarring and would rather be a bit more subtle in the way they present their hair restoration surgery over the decades. I don't think alot of young guys understand that completely. Dr. Rosanelli's primary client base is most likely the wealthiest guys of N. California fwiw. I understand the doctor's attitude towards erring on the side of caution and believe it or not alot of guys that are subtle don't mind smaller surgeries just so that virtually no one will ever know. In high-net worth society and corporate life - just the stigma of noticeable plastic surgery/hair restoration can trickle down and these types of guys are trying to avoid that (methinks) as much as possible. A complete 5000 graft or mega-session w/a funky shaved head and downtime for many of these guys - it simply can't happen. Too much $$$ on the line imho. Many probably won't allow the appearance of excessive vanity - people that work w/and under them could use it against them. I consult (work only-in person quarterly) w/alot of high-power attorneys in South Florida, East Coast & some from Israel and China. Not a single one of them would ever consider having a large procedure at one time. Two of them are using the incremental approach over time very discreetly. Since I have had many surgeries but do NOT interact day-to-day in an office setting nor do I have a social circle of high-net worth friends; a few of the attorney's ask me in great detail about what I've done over the last 29 years - but really aren't considering a cosmetic procedure seriously. Normal everyday Joe types - it doesn't effect them quite so much in terms of sheer economics & a upper-echelon social circle. Of course some guys overcome bad work (ALOT do) and just say screw it and live their lives w/bad work regardless. Just my perspective.

With just a bit of dermmatch or a sprinkle of hairatin hair fibers - he could look near normal density. Dr. gave him back the foundational aspect of the crown 'whirl' - nice work! Add a bit of volumizing shampoo/conditioner and a volumizing mousse and finishing spray and that crown would look pretty normal. Always remember w/the crown you can drop 5K of grafts and you may not achieve the illusion of normal density. It's a black hole for grafts as they say. Looks like his hair is lying flatter in the after photo and his hair is more forward oriented than in the before shot. Sure, another 2K of grafts would look even better - that's 3.5K grafts for a small visual area but proportionally larger surface area. He looks like he has wonderful hair characteristics though - which is a good thing.

This thread is probably the best thread on the entire website - it meanders all over the place at times. But I really don't care. Everyone gets a say so - as it should be. And Erdogan keeps pumping out 50K+ per day gross revenue and doesn't engage here. It's a very good case study and throughout the thread many types of surgical approaches (pros & cons) are discussed. Thread delivers page views for sure!

Systemic absorption (oral dose) is MAGNITUDES more effective than topical. Case closed. If you ever took ORAL minox (Loniten) vs even pharmaceutical-grade (and tested/verified) 30% minox cream - again. NO comparison. Topical is unfortunately a poor alternative and there was some hype but I would guess if you asked the most trusted surgeons out there if they have good feedback on topical dut - if they are NOT affiliated w/making any extra money off of prescribing/selling it to you; all would tell you topical is better than nothing but in no way compares to systemic absorption (oral dose). Oh, and generics are a no-go for meds. One should always pay up for name brand if using oral meds (which you are not). If you really understand generics in the pharmaceutical industry you would realize that there can be significant differences in quality/purity/efficacy. But how would people know without controlled double-blind studies? Simple. They wouldn't.

This is why you go to long-standing reputable impeccable surgeons like H&W, Konior, Shapiro and a FUE doctor in Georgia who can't be mentioned here. With these particular surgeons in N. America - you get 100% straight-up knowledge and they have spent 20+ years building up their reputations and employ rigorously trained personnel. These top-tier surgeons know EXACTLY the major & ever-so-subtle differences between FUT & FUE and create a custom/boutique-like plan for each patient. Specifically the meticulous cherry picking during FUE is vital if you are stripped out or only need 5000 grafts or less lifetime. Frankly, Legend's hair quality from donor absolutely sickens me - but in a good way. A better choice than the other FUE surgeon he was considering w/larger FUE extraction 'holes.' Now he'll look good for his wedding and in 2 years his wife won't even care and he probably doesn't need another surgery for many many years if he stays on his meds. Hasson's hairlines are very very good and he can even 'fine-tune' it if one is a perfectionist.

Looks like you have very fine hair. Give it time. It is my opinion that those w/thinner diameter hair & straighter hair take longer for initial shock to wear off and begin the growth process.

18 months is 18 months. You can either spend the money and have it corrected properly by a very experienced/caring doctor that knows FUT/FUE & repair (like Shapiro Medical Group or another clinic that is experienced in all types of hair transplantation and corrective procedures) and then can live the rest of your life properly or Go back to Turkey, the machine/factory of Erdogan will NOT take out your grafts and pack in a bunch more (mostly by his techs) - sure they may use microscopes now, but that might be just another promise and they don't do it consistently. He's bullshitting you and you know it. You are a number/paycheck to that guy. You need at least 50% of the incorrectly angled grafts removed and many of the multi-hair grafts at/near frontal hairline zone taken out. Don't go back to Turkey - this guy's operation is purely a business to him at this point. Ramping up to 8 surgeries a day - probably 12-16 a day w/n another few years so he can retire sooner. Good luck.

If you want to do this right you can probably have the 1st two rows fue'd out and microscopically dissected into proper follicular units and placed back in behind the hairline. Maybe it takes 3 procedures every 4-6 months? I would consult w/Shapiro Medical Group guys. They know what they are doing. You'll begin to look better once the big plugs are mostly gone. Then when enough healing has occurred you can dense pack a new hairline (might take 2 more sessions). In 18 months you could be almost done. I would begin now and mentally prepare. It will be worth it in the long run. Don't go back to Turkey - you will regret it.

FUE out the 1st 2 rows in two separate procedures. Have a top-notch clinic re-pack your frontal zone properly. This is 2-3 surgery process.

HLC Hair Clinic. Manual FUE extraction - stick and place. Small sessions. Compared to the factory Erdogan is now doing - this clinic is leaps and bounds better for about the same price.

I also had a transplant w/Dr. Feller when I was 37 and began losing alot more hair about 6 years after at age 43. 16 year user of dutasteride here. I do use systemic oral rogaine and spiro (yea, I know - don't go there). As well as overmachogrande.com laser helmet 440 diode and 2X's weekly Nizoral. I think I RIVAL you for very very fine/straight hair. Guys like us literally need 7K in our frontal 1/3rd to have a natural hairline zone that 'appears' to be near normal. Not to mention (if you have the donor) another up to 5-8K for mid-vertex and near the crown. The crown you 'dust' lightly. Since you are new to dut (but an older guy) - I would stick with it even if you are losing ground. Think how much more you would be losing without dut? Sometimes us thin haired/fine hair guys w/very straight hair 'max' out our donor (fut/fue) and even then - we just have to work with what we have and accept it. I still have a couple surgeries left at nearly 9k of grafts done and will probably throw permanent SMP into the mix along w/PRP w/Acell in the next 2 years and that will probably be it for me. Good luck & you have had good surgeons thus far.

This is like the anecdotal stories of men who wear hairpieces and the person they sleep with every night never notices. Sure buddy - okay. I'm sure she's a very observant woman in real life. This is typical of the WORST type of posting on this website in my opinion. Yes, the results are very good but the hyperbolic 'copy' in your headline actually makes your clinic appear to be a bit schlocky. Again, great results but I don't see the need for the extra 'copy' about the gf. Maybe I'm being a bit of a pisser though.

Still; good points are being made on both sides. Let it continue if it must.

Also, imho if you are spending 6 figures for Med School (likely) - why are you concerned with cost and flying to Turkey? C'mon - you are a smart guy and for 2K of grafts if you spend top dollar with Konior or Rahal or even Devroye that's not even an extra 15K. This smacks of typical new poster with okay - not body dysmorphia but massive OCD and instead of going to IN-PERSON consults w/top surgeons, basically does a probably email consult w/Erdogan (who would never turn down any patient w/alot of hair) and then comes and posts here. If you are going to be a physician why would you not further consult w/experts in their field, in person w/ALL the facts before coming here and being verbally chided by a poster like me (which is inevitable)? I'm sure you believe you have enough hairloss to warrant elective cosmetic surgery but even after being told by the most knowledgeable posters in this thread (not me, btw) that you are not a candidate - you continue to engage. I wonder why that is. Finally, you are just neurotic about your hair - every single person in this thread and website are as well - so you are among friends. Even if I am a humorless bore when dumping ice water in this thread. Good luck!

Dude - you should have a great life! You are way smarter than I am, so please disregard my comments as inconsequential and please, engage away with many other knowledgeable guys on a hair forum instead of um, I don't know - going to several well-regarded surgeons in America and get PROFESSIONAL opinions. Haha!

Oh but wait! I've seen at least 20 surgeries on here that were cheered on w/guys that have less hairloss than this guy - right into the frontal hairline and temple areas. So he shouldn't have surgery 'cause he is only considering a doctor in Turkey? So if he spent more with Rahal or Konoir or someone of that caliber - now he's magically a candidate? One thing is obvious - if you have this miniscule amount of hairloss you better choose wisely and go with the best of the best. It appears this is a case of body dysmorphia - based on the original posters replies, imo. Let me emphatically state this guy has no worries - but in other threads I would be hearing from other posters let him do what he wants to do 'cause it's his own perception of hairloss. I'm beginning to think the format of asking questions means nothing at this website. Why not just have threads of before & afters and 'case studies' - since any answer is subjective at best.

It is ironic yet true that when provocative topics are raised - we tend to get answers. Do you really think Dr. Erdogan would have EVER bothered to come here on the board and give his explanation of tech training at his facility if there wasn't a real reason to do so? Frankly, he should have a section about that on his website - since he's such the promoter, eh? Yet we only get a personal long explanation when enough doubt or noise was created. Let me tell you something; my entire extended family is in the healthcare industry (doctors/pharmacists/physician assistants/nurses) and I can tell you with absolute certainty they are just like anyone else. Certainly nothing more but often much less than the rest of the masses. Yea, they are usually very intelligent and take tests well - that's not everything. Bedside manner is relevant too - and truly wanting to heal. Plastic surgeons usually don't go into their field 'cause it's a 'calling' - it's detailed and demanding but very lucrative. Now, to the point. There are so many doctor's that are challenged on this website and we never get a clear answer. Oh, it will mess up my refund, I don't want to out my doctor, blah blah blah. Most of them have a rep on this board or I can guarantee you someone on their staff looking for mention's of their name on this forum. What do we normally get? An echo chamber and then mods begging for more info so they can open a dialogue with the doctor. I'd like to hear more about that. Website gets paid big bucks from doctor's and then I see alot of half-assed excuses about resolution. I often wonder what the story is behind the scenes (outside of the website mission statement). Case in point. I bet at least the vast majority of doctor's aren't showing the required work on this website they are supposed to be accountable for. Oh, but the moderator didn't keep up on that for the last 6 months - 'cause hey, I'm getting paid and I have to moderate all these posts and keep replies on topic. Doctor's should be required to interact on at least a limited basis here in order to stay recommended. In fact I saw a couple very nice/detailed and informative replies from Dr. Bhatti today - thank you doctor for your insight to a regular poster(s). I realize doctor's are busy but surely they can step up and reply to at least the most interesting questions on this forum. Many do, more need to do so. It's called good standard of care. Perhaps I'm most disappointed in newbies who don't use the search function and spend REAL time studying and reading months and months (years and years) of QUALITY and in-depth threads before they come on here and ask the same uninformed questions. It would be better to charge an initial small registration fee to post in order keep out utterly clueless that don't bother to really approach major surgery investigation with the respect it deserves. But what do I know? The majority in here are into hair porn and can't emotionally handle going bald as nature intended; it's flaccid and weak & I have no bloody use for it. Yet, here I am posting like an idiot!! ; )

Well Sean - hasn't H&W and Rahal always quoted prices for their services in the loonie (CAD)? If so, you know that going in as long as CAD is way above par you are paying a premium. Same w/European doctors quoting their prices in EUR/USD. Do you think any of these doctors would lower their prices if EUR/USD popped back up to 1.45 against the dollar? Haha! So, the Rupee just hit all-time highs USD/INR. If surgeons like Bhatti quote consistently in Rupees - you know you will have to pay a premium right now. And he's passing on the 18% GST tax! Oh boy. Since local workers are paid in local currency ALL payments should be made in local currency. But of course, go to Turkey and get a quote - any good doctor is quoting EUR/USD or USD. Let's say the EURUSD falls back to .9 against the USD? You think Erdogan is going to ask for EUR/USD in payment or USD? Hmm... There will always be currency fluctuations - though in my humble opinion if prices fluctuate year over year more than 5% I believe customers should be offered price breaks to keep things consistent every 6-12 months. My last surgery I was quoted USD as payment but the surgery was not in the U.S.