Dord

Anyone?

At least in the U.S., generic drugs must follow strict guidelines for bioequivalence with their brand name counterpart. Generic drugs are allowed to slightly range in dosage, but for finasteride this is not much of a concern because of its longer half-life. Either your dosage is a bit high, which should not matter much at the 1mg level, or your dosage is a bit low, which also should not matter much given the small difference in efficacy found between doses of 1mg and .75mg. It can't hurt to try a generic given the high prices you're paying. And if you do not like one generic there may be others to choose from. Plus, you can use your newfound savings on herbal treatments, some of which I have found beneficial when used in supplement with recommended medications

Yes, I seem to have the lowest price for a U.S. company. Nor could I find a Canadian pharmacy that could match that price. But other generic drugs have also been skyrocketing in price of late. Those affected will have to either bare the price, change to an every-other-day schedule, or revert to the mess of 5mg...

Has anyone noticed an increase in the cost of finasteride 1mg? Mine recently doubled in price, from $13 to $26.

You may be responding aversely to fish oils due to the brand itself. Many fish oil products contain PCBs and are inadequately filtered. PCBs can have an adverse effect on hair, along with numerous other deleterious effects. Try plant-based omega-3 oils and see if your results are the same.

Are there any supplements that have been shown to act as type 1 or type 3 5α-reductase inhibitors? I believe saw palmetto has been shown to work on both type 1 and 2, but some sources do not recommend taking it with Finasteride. However, if there are any natural type 1/3 inhibitors these can be taken in combination with the drug. The studies I have found usually show only the type 2 inhibition of the herb. Thank you.

Need another reason? Regulation of Male Sex Hormone Levels by Soy Isoflavones in Rats Abstract: Several studies have suggested that soybean intake is associated with a lower risk of prostate cancer. However, the mechanism of prostate cancer prevention by soybeans remains unclear. Because prostate cancer is reported to have an association with an increased level of dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and soybean isoflavones are known to inhibit 5-reductase, which is involved in the conversion of testosterone to DHT, the effects of soybean extract and isoflavones on the plasma levels of male sex hormones were investigated using male rats. In Experiment I, SpragueDawley rats were fed diets with and without soy flour; in Experiment II, rats were fed diets containing 2% soy methanol extract or 0.2% semipurified isoflavones or a control diet. The study showed a reduction of plasma DHT along with an increase in total plasma androgen in rats fed soy flour or semipurified isoflavones for 1 wk. These results suggest that soy isoflavone intake may reduce plasma DHT level. dhtsoyconversion.pdf

Hello all, Has anyone had any experience with some of the unusual plants mentioned in this study? Here is the abstract: Aims of the study The purpose of this research is to define the possible mechanisms involved in hair loss treatment of the selected plants by determining the 5α-reductase enzyme inhibition and hair growth promoting activities, and the relationship between these two activities. Materials and methods Seventeen Thai plants traditionally used for hair treatment were selected. The plants were dried, ground and extracted by maceration with ethyl alcohol. These extracts were further tested for 5α-reductase inhibition using enzymes from rat livers. Hair growth promoting activity was tested in C57BL/6 mice. Results Carthamus tinctorius L. was the most potent 5α-reductase inhibitor, with a finasteride equivalent 5α-reductase inhibitory activity (FEA) value of 24.30 ± 1.64 mg finasteride equivalent per 1 g crude extract. Phyllanthus emblica L. was the second most potent inhibitor, with FEA of 18.99 ± 0.40. Rhinacanthus nasutus (L.) Kurz. was the least potent 5α-reductase inhibitor (FEA 10.69 ± 0.96). Carthamus tinctorius also was the most potent hair growth promoter in C57BL/6 mice. There were strong relationships between 5α-reductase inhibitory activity and hair growth promoting activity (r = 0.719), and between 5α-reductase inhibitory activity and hair follicle count (r = 0.766). Conclusions Ethanolic extract of Carthamus tinctorius was the most potent 5α-reductase inhibitor and hair growth promoter. This discovery may lead to the development of new alternative medicines for hair loss prevention and treatment. The authors actually studied a litany of different plants, a few well-known to us, like ginger. Others, like the Indian Gooseberry, would be difficult to get as a supplement. The most effective plant was safflower. I have read about the dangers of safflower for those at risk of cardiovascular disease but I have not researched it fully. Lemongrass comes in at third. There is a very inexpensive lemongrass supplement, because it is, well, lemongrass, but this only contains the aerial parts. I do not know if aerial parts were used in this study. The butterfly pea comes in at sixth. Good luck getting your hands on that. 11th is the starfruit, but I would not want to take a risk given its levels of oxalate. Green Chirayta is next, and there is a supplement available for it on Ebay, but the quality control is unknown. Ditto for Cassia siamea/Senna siamea, which follows. Safflower and lemongrass are the easiest to obtain, and appear to be a good supplement to the normal routine, depending on the amount of finasteride one takes daily. On an unrelated note, has anyone had any improvement with the combination of soy isoflavones and capsaicin? The evidence for that is based on a separate study. 5-reductase inhibition.pdf

I have not gotten around to reporting the results of my initiative. I consumed either soy milk or black tea everyday for a four months, without finasteride. My dht was 22 with a range of 25-75, and I did notice some improvement hair-loss wise. I have a copy of the tests, but of course my personal experiences are anecdotal. My free testosterone is also on the lower half of the range (300-1080) in general, so more would be necessary for some. I went back in January to get the dht tested on a normal diet and finasteride, but my doctor only tested free testosterone. So I'll have to remind her next time. Obviously I will not be able to compare this to a baseline with no treatment. Note that my doctor did not test free testosterone simultaneously with dht. I hope studies are conducted in the area, though it is obvious that certain interested groups would appreciate nonsignificant data. Lackluster results can be turned into success, as we see with numerous pharmaceutical studies. Nevertheless, I do prefer popping a pill then having to ensure that I consume certain drinks daily.

Thank you for your input. While I agree that soy intake may be an issue for younger men who plan on having children, the research appears mixed. A 2009 study found that "Semen parameters, including semen volume, sperm concentration, sperm count, sperm percent motility, total motile sperm count, and sperm morphology, were not significantly affected by consumption" (Beaton, L., McVeigh, B., Dillingham, B., Lampe, J., & Duncan, A. (2010). Soy protein isolates of varying isoflavone content do not adversely affect semen quality in healthy young men. Fertility And Sterility, 94(5), 1717-1722.) Another study, a meta-analysis, found soy to not have a significant effect on testosterone or free testosterone. However, it seems that they did not measure dht levels. (Hamilton-Reeves, J., Vazquez, G., Duval, S., Phipps, W., Kurzer, M., & Messina, M. (2010). Clinical studies show no effects of soy protein or isoflavones on reproductive hormones in men: results of a meta-analysis. Fertility And Sterility, 94(3), 997-1007.) A study that did measure DHT levels in regards to soy intake found that it decreased in a group of people given soy supplements. Despite this, "No changes in the serum levels of estradiol and total testosterone were detected after 3-month supplementation." (Tanaka, M., Fujimoto, K., Chihara, Y., Torimoto, K., Yoneda, T., Tanaka, N., & ... Hirao, Y. (2009). Isoflavone supplements stimulated the production of serum equol and decreased the serum dihydrotestosterone levels in healthy male volunteers. Prostate Cancer And Prostatic Diseases, 12(3), 247-252.) Other, better options do exist for hair loss, but the scare that soy will feminize men seems overly exaggerated. The problem with inferring an effect in men in the second study mentioned above is that women already have higher levels of estrogen than men. I don't think it is safe to infer from a study of only girls to boys and then men. Boys and men obviously differ in their hormone levels.

Thanks for the input. I am in no way denying that the effectiveness of the FDA medications; However, the reason why there is no compelling research to support or deny the use of black tea and/or soy in reducing DHT levels in humans is because none have been conducted in humans as of yet. Never should the lack of research in an area allows us to make conclusions--doing so in my profession would be inexcusable. As partially mentioned above, several studies have showed the anti-androgen properties of spearmint in humans. Given the side-effects sometimes mentioned with the use of the current FDA approved medications, there is a need to investigate the alternatives.

While it appears no one has had any experience with soy/ black tea, I have included these into my diet for a while (but not green tea). I'll wait about another month and report if my DHT blood levels have decreased.

I have peruse this site for a while now, and though it was best to join so I could interact with the community. If you need to gain access to certain studies I can help with that as well. I wanted to see if anyone has had any experiences with soy or tea and reduced hair loss. --While it does not seem to reduce hair loss, Corvettester's experience with Biotin (http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/163314-corvettesters-biotin-experience.html) is encouraging, and I will start taking this. --Personally I have tried saw palmetto for over a year (450mg) and while I saw reduced hair loss and zero side effects, I am going to move on to other treatments. However, I would not discourage its use. One study's (Potency of a Novel Saw Palmetto Ethanol Extract, SPET-085, for Inhibition of 5α-Reductase II) review of the literature indicates that "Clinical studies of SPE have been equivocal, with some showing significant results and others not. These inconsistent results may be due, in part, to varying bioactivities of the SPEs used in the studies." The above study indicated success in reducing the enzyme that converts testosterone to DHT. It is attached! --No relationship was found between Vitamin D levels and alopecia in a 2008 study(Does degree of baldness influence vitamin D status?) --Vitamin E did not help reduce alopecia in one study (High-dose alpha-tocopherol as a preventive of doxorubicin-induced alopecia.) However one cannot rule out the effect of the anti-cancer drug as a confounding factor. --Spearmint seems to help reduce hirsutism in women by reducing free testosterone (Effect of spearmint (Mentha spicata Labiatae) teas on androgen levels in women with hirsutism.) Here is the abstract: Mentha spicata Labiatae, known as spearmint and Mentha piperita Labiatae, known as peppermint can be used for various kinds of illnesses in herbal medicine and flavoring in industry. M. spicata Labiatae grows on the Anamas plateau of Yenithornarbademli town of Isparta, located in southwest part of Turkey. In this town, clinicians thought that consumption of tea steeped with M. spicata or M. piperita caused a diminished libido. Because antiandrogenic effects of spearmint and peppermint were found previously in rats, it was decided to observe the effect of this herbal tea on the androgen levels in hirsute women.Twenty-one female hirsute patients, 12 with polycystic ovary syndrome and 9 with idiopathic hirsutism were included to the study. They were took a cup of herbal tea which was steeped with M. spicata for 5 days twice a day in the follicular phase of their menstrual cycles. After treatment with spearmint teas, there was a significant decrease in free testosterone and increase in luteinizing hormone, follicle-stimulating hormone and estradiol. There were no significant decreases in total testosterone or dehydroepiandrostenedione sulphate levels. Spearmint can be an alternative to antiandrogenic treatment for mild hirsutism. Further studies are needed to test the reliability of these results and the availability of spearmint as a drug for hirsutism. --Soy and tea. The only study I found (Soy phytochemicals and tea bioactive components synergistically inhibit androgen-sensitive human prostate tumors in mice.) indicated success in reducing dht with black but not green tea. I have attached the study. Here are some interesting extracts: Combined effects of soy phytochemicals and tea on serum testosterone and DHT concentrations. Mice treated with black tea tended to have a greater serum testosterone concentration (34.4%, P 0.50) and had a 72% lower DHT concentration than controls (P 0.05), suggesting that black tea may contain components that inhibit the activity of 5- reductase, an enzyme that converts testosterone to the more bioactive DHT. Green tea tended to increase serum testosterone and DHT levels by 73.8% (P 0.14) and 194% (P 0.076), respectively. The combination of SPC (Soy extract) and green tea reduced serum levels of DHT (P 0.05). ... Several in vitro and in vivo studies have shown that green and black tea polyphenols have chemopreventive effects on prostate carcinogenesis (16,18,27). Studies of tea polyphenols suggest that epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG) is the major bioactive component in green tea and less is present in black tea. Black tea also contains other tea polyphenols such as theaflavins and thearubigins (28). Multiple studies also suggest that components in dietary soy have anticarcinogenic effects (Fig. 2D), suggesting that black tea may have bioactive components that inhibit the conversion of testosterone to DHT,presumably via inhibition of 5-reductase in this SCID-LNCaP animal model. It is unclear whether black tea theaflavins, EGCG and/or other components are responsible for this function in vivo. On the other hand, green tea did not reduce the serum levelof DHT, but instead tended to increase it (P 0.076) (Fig.2D), and we found that green tea treatment did not inhibittumor growth (Fig. 1A). Green tea contained more EGCGthan black tea (Table 1), and studies have shown that EGCGinhibits the activity of 5-reductase (38). These results derived from our animal model suggest that, although EGCGmay be a potent antitumor agent in green tea and inhibit5-reducatase activity, green tea contains other constituentsthat may counteract EGCG’s antitumor activity, in part bycounteracting its modulation of 5-reducatase activity. Further research is required to identify these constituents andstudy their effects and/or their interactions with other components on prostate cancer. Our results demonstrate the importance of evaluating the benefit of whole tea products,rather than just isolated tea catechins or EGCG, on prostatecancer prevention because other tea constituents may playimportant roles. Green tea combined with SPC reduced total testosteroneand DHT levels (Fig. 2A, B), suggesting that interactivemodulation of androgen levels is one of the important mechanisms for the synergistic prevention of prostate cancer progression by the soy/green tea combination. This study supportsthe use of appropriate combinations of bioactive dietaryagents, such as soy and tea, as effective nutritional regimens forprostate cancer prevention and treatment. Has anyone has any experience with soy and/or black tea? J. Nutr.-2003-Zhou-516-21.pdf Potency of a Novel Saw Palmetto Ethanol Extract.pdf

I tried saw palmetto for over a year (450mg--higher doses have not resulted in significantly greater effects). While I experienced no side effects and saw less hair loss, I am stopping after my current bottle and moving on to other treatments. I am going to start a related post asking for specific results from certain treatments