Why I highly recommend you don't take finasteride

[Blake_Bloxham]

Originally Posted by gasto

How about these about general medicine and research being propensely biased( apply it to the infamous Propecia trials, especially the fishy Japanese one where a ridiculous percentage of side-effects were purported).

The drugs don't work: a modern medical scandal | Ben Goldacre | Business | The Guardian

What was wrong with the Japanese Propecia study? Published in a legitimate journal, conducted by third party scientists, void (from what I can tell) of "big pharma" influence, etc.

Aside from the results, did you have issues with the methodology? The statistics used to analyze the data? Did you note bias with the sampling or randomization?

Just curious as to whether or not people think it's a bad study or simply don't believe the results.

[Shampoo]

"Tons of people on a message board" complaining about propecia seems to me to give a very misleading sample of patients that have a problem with taking the drug. For every 5 people that complain isn't there roughly 90-95 people that use the drug successfully that we almost never hear from?

It seems to me that the statistically few people that have problems, want to pretend it's some huge percentage of patients that have problems with propecia when that is not at all the case. Then they suggest "well there might be problems down the road", but we could say that about any drug or chemicals we are exposed to.

I am sorry for the patients that don't tolerate propecia well, but it seems pretty clear by numerous studies that they are in the overwhelming minority.

[chrisdav]

I agree with you Shampoo.

[gasto]

Originally Posted by Future_HT_Doc

What was wrong with the Japanese Propecia study? Published in a legitimate journal, conducted by third party scientists, void (from what I can tell) of "big pharma" influence, etc.

Aside from the results, did you have issues with the methodology? The statistics used to analyze the data? Did you note bias with the sampling or randomization?

Just curious as to whether or not people think it's a bad study or simply don't believe the results.

Evaluation of efficacy and safety of finasteride ... [J Dermatol. 2012] - PubMed - NCBI

Let's start by the racial bias. All the patients were Japanese.


"Safety data were assessed by interviews and laboratory tests in all men enrolled in the study."

Interviews for health issues? There are some health problems that are not easily targeted by pain complaints...


But the highly biased claim in the conclusion is right at the end:

"In Japanese men with AGA, oral finasteride used in the long-term study maintained progressive hair regrowth without recognized side-effect."

Without recognized side-effect? There is no medicine out there without side-effect and yet they are able to construct such a claim?

Evaluation of efficacy and safety of finasteride 1*mg in 3177 Japanese men with androgenetic alopecia - SATO - 2011 - The Journal of Dermatology - Wiley Online Library

There is no information on the funding, as well.

[Blake_Bloxham]

Originally Posted by gasto

Evaluation of efficacy and safety of finasteride ... [J Dermatol. 2012] - PubMed - NCBI

Let's start by the racial bias. All the patients were Japanese.


"Safety data were assessed by interviews and laboratory tests in all men enrolled in the study."

Interviews for health issues? There are some health problems that are not easily targeted by pain complaints...


But the highly biased claim in the conclusion is right at the end:

"In Japanese men with AGA, oral finasteride used in the long-term study maintained progressive hair regrowth without recognized side-effect."

Without recognized side-effect? There is no medicine out there without side-effect and yet they are able to construct such a claim?

Evaluation of efficacy and safety of finasteride 1*mg in 3177 Japanese men with androgenetic alopecia - SATO - 2011 - The Journal of Dermatology - Wiley Online Library

There is no information on the funding, as well.

You'd be hard pressed to find a legitimate study without half a dozen flaws like you pointed out.

I've listened to individuals with PhD's in physiology, medically related fields, etc, absolutely rip incredible studies from the New England Journal of Medicine, Journal of the American Medical Association, etc, to shreds. In the end, no study will ever be perfect.

However, I still think the Japanese Propecia study was one of the better finasteride-based studies to date. Frankly, it offers some objective data into an arena of theories, opinions, and n = 1 experiences, and I appreciate that.

Having said that, I do think the issue needs to be analyzed further. This research is far, far from over, and I look forward to future studies (despite what the results may be).

[TommyLucchese]

All I can say is in 2.5 years on Propecia and my hair is a million times better than it was, and my manhood is working perfectly.

[londonboycharlie]

Be interesting to see what kind of information come out about the drug when the inevitable class action lawsuits start against the manufacturers

[Blake_Bloxham]

Originally Posted by londonboycharlie

Be interesting to see what kind of information come out about the drug when the inevitable class action lawsuits start against the manufacturers

The class action lawsuits have already started.

I also wanted to add one small comment:

regardless of whether or not persistent sexual side effects affect a very small or larger than expected number of hair loss sufferers, I feel awful for individuals and wish it never happened to anyone. If there is anything our community can do to help hair loss sufferers with these issues, don't hesitate to send any of the moderators a private message.

[Bobilero]

Bottom line is each individual can only garner their opinon on this drug from their own personal experience.

Mine is an awful experience in which it took over a year to recover having been on the drug for nearly 4 years without side effects.

I have recovered though now. Good luck to everyone on it. The side effects and lifetime commitment was definitly not for me though or to lose everything gained once i stopped taking it.

But if it works for people , good for them. I hope they dont get hit with the sides. I just get a really bad gut feeling about this drug and a future massive medical scandal. Sincerley hope im wrong.

My main issue with this drug is not the drug itself but in how blase and reckless Dr's and other 'HT related individuals' are about prescribing or advising people to get on it. People should be made aware of the risks and let make their own choices for sure.

However it is imperative that people should be made get their bloodwork / hormonal data done BEFORE starting this drug. It is essential they have baseline data should things go wrong. Otherwise they are in a medical limbo and dont know what is causing their problems. From my experience and what i can see this just isnt happening.

People are jumping on this stuff like they would asprin. Its an extremley powerful drug in which we dont know what the long term implications are and which needs to be treated with much more care.

[Shampoo]

As Bobilero says Propecia is a "2EachHisOwn".

With that said we hear about the downsides of taking Propecia, but I think it also needs to be known that there are downsides to not taking Propecia.

This isn't a situation where you just decide to not take propecia and end up with as much hair as the guy taking propecia. You probably wont.

In fact you will probably go bald quicker and possibly be faced with spending thousands more on extra transplants trying to keep up with native hair loss that probably could have been saved longer had Propecia use continued.

Most top doctors advise their patients to take propecia to preserve native hair, but each patient must in the end decide which downside they can live with.