How wonderful it was to have a public forum like "The Bald Truth" radio program to debate questionable modalities of hair loss treatment like laser therapy. For a long time I've wanted to debate a "cold laser" industry advocate publicly, but there were never any takers when I would ask. However, I think the national recognition Kobren has earned over the years as a consumer advocate made his request one that couldn't be refused or ignored on the part of the industry. The following are my thoughts and opinion of the debate.

On Sunday August 26 on XM-radio Dr. Alan Bauman and I debated the merits of low power laser therapy for hair loss. Dr. Bauman was given the floor to make his case for laser therapy, but he failed to do so. One might have expected him to point us to a website that demonstrated undeniable and mind blowing before/after photos and testimonials, but he couldn't. Instead, he gave us a website of photos that would easily be torn apart by educated viewers like readers of the Hair Transplant Network.

None of these photos showed any significant change after "treatment" and the usual deceptive photography practices were well represented: such as the wetting of the hair in the before photo and then showing dry puffed out hair in the after photo; or showing the scalp in the before photo at one angle and then the after photo at another angle to make an area APPEAR to have grown hair, or showing the existing hair cut short in the before photo and grown out longer in the after photo. Of course there was no clinical information about the medical history of these laser "patients" so we can't know what medications they were on before, during, or after "treatment". How convenient.

Without convincing photos he really couldn't establish that the supposed phenomenon of "laser induced hair growth" was a reality. But that didn't dissuade him one bit. He then launched into a well rehearsed list of scientific studies, texts, and papers that supposedly supported the existence of the phenomenon. This was supposed to quiet me, and while some of the sources he cited sounded a little impressive, most sounded outright ridiculous and laughable-like his reference to Russian scientific evidence.

I was prepared for this tactic and was able to dismiss any and all supposed scientific evidence out of hand by simply pointing out that you can't use the scientific method to prove a phenomenon that doesn't exist in the first place. That's putting the cart before the horse and is an invalid way of demonstrating the existence of a phenomenon. It's like looking for the details a crime when NO crime ever took place. Plainly stated- if you can't see a cosmetically significant change in hair volume and/or coverage after "treatment" with just your own eyes then there simply is NO phenomenon to speak of or study in depth. This is just common sense.

A phenomenon is SELF EVIDENT and doesn't need scientific evaluation to prove its existence. For example, the Northern Lights are a well known and easily described PHENOMENON, you do not have to understand the scientific aspects of electro-magnetic radiation, atmospheric distortion, and solar wind to witness it, you only need to open your eyes and look. The growth of hair from laser light therapy does not suffer from such obviousness and so does NOT exist as a valid phenomenon. If it is not an existing phenomenon, then only someone with an agenda will attempt to "study" it. Think of s???©ance mediums at the turn of the 20th century.

In reality, the "science" that Dr. Bauman presented had absolutely nothing to do with the growth of hair using laser light. Rather I believe it was a hodge-podge of studies that were thrown out in an effort to lead a lay public to INFER that a non-existent phenomenon had scientific support. The connections were as weak and tenuous as those presented in support of wild theories about UFOs, the Bermuda Triangle, and the Loch Ness Monster.My personal favorite was the paper Dr. Bauman cited about how ATP is "energized" when in the presence of laser light. I think both the public and the scientific community deserve better than that when handing him thousands of dollars for a treatment that uses a phenomenon that does not exist.

Dr. Bauman's credibility really came under fire when it was found out that the ONE person who called the show in support of the laser comb turned out to be HIS OWN PATIENT. This would not have been such a scandal except for the fact that neither Dr. Bauman nor the caller disclosed this very important fact until I started questioning what the caller was claiming. When it came out who the caller really was and that Dr. Bauman actually put him up to it behind the scenes, Mr. Kobren stated on the air that he was never informed that the caller was a patient of Dr. Bauman.

I can't state what Dr. Bauman's intentions were when he asked this patient to clandestinely call in on behalf of laser hair treatments that he sells for thousands of dollars, but I have my suspicions.

Also note that throughout the entire 2 hour live broadcast, only ONE person called in supporting laser therapy. For a show that reaches millions of people each week I think that's enough evidence to show that no such phenomenon exists. It seems that the only people who claim such a phenomenon exists are those who stand to benefit from it -not very convincing to me.

Why is it that grocery store check out clerks whose hands are exposed to laser light all day do not complain of excess hair growth on the hands or forearms? Why is it that people who work in laser printer factories or laboratories that use lasers all day have not reported unwanted hair growth? The obvious answer is that there is no such phenomenon.

The bottom line is that I am convinced my position is correct simply because I know and understand what lasers are. "Laser" is NOT a substance as laser therapy advocates would have you believe, but rather a form of energy. As such it does not contain any mystical powers and cannot affect cellular material in anyway other than to transfer the energy into to heat.

If lasers positively affected the body at the cellular level then advocates of laser therapy would have us implant fiber optics throughout our bodies and light ourselves up like an internal Christmas tree, and while this may sound silly, it is only marginally more ridiculous than shining a laser pointer on your head and expecting it to grow hair.

I look forward to continuing the debate with Dr. Bauman on this forum.

__________________
Feller Medical, PC
Great Neck, NY

Dr. Alan Feller is a member of the Coalition of Independent Hair Restoration Physicians

Providing Hair Transplants and Platelet Rich Plasma (PRP) Treatments

How wonderful it was to have a public forum like "The Bald Truth" radio program to debate questionable modalities of hair loss treatment like laser therapy. For a long time I've wanted to debate a "cold laser" industry advocate publicly, but there were never any takers when I would ask. However, I think the national recognition Kobren has earned over the years as a consumer advocate made his request one that couldn't be refused or ignored on the part of the industry. The following are my thoughts and opinion of the debate.

On Sunday August 26 on XM-radio Dr. Alan Bauman and I debated the merits of low power laser therapy for hair loss. Dr. Bauman was given the floor to make his case for laser therapy, but he failed to do so. One might have expected him to point us to a website that demonstrated undeniable and mind blowing before/after photos and testimonials, but he couldn't. Instead, he gave us a website of photos that would easily be torn apart by educated viewers like readers of the Hair Transplant Network.

None of these photos showed any significant change after "treatment" and the usual deceptive photography practices were well represented: such as the wetting of the hair in the before photo and then showing dry puffed out hair in the after photo; or showing the scalp in the before photo at one angle and then the after photo at another angle to make an area APPEAR to have grown hair, or showing the existing hair cut short in the before photo and grown out longer in the after photo. Of course there was no clinical information about the medical history of these laser "patients" so we can't know what medications they were on before, during, or after "treatment". How convenient.

Without convincing photos he really couldn't establish that the supposed phenomenon of "laser induced hair growth" was a reality. But that didn't dissuade him one bit. He then launched into a well rehearsed list of scientific studies, texts, and papers that supposedly supported the existence of the phenomenon. This was supposed to quiet me, and while some of the sources he cited sounded a little impressive, most sounded outright ridiculous and laughable-like his reference to Russian scientific evidence.

I was prepared for this tactic and was able to dismiss any and all supposed scientific evidence out of hand by simply pointing out that you can't use the scientific method to prove a phenomenon that doesn't exist in the first place. That's putting the cart before the horse and is an invalid way of demonstrating the existence of a phenomenon. It's like looking for the details a crime when NO crime ever took place. Plainly stated- if you can't see a cosmetically significant change in hair volume and/or coverage after "treatment" with just your own eyes then there simply is NO phenomenon to speak of or study in depth. This is just common sense.

A phenomenon is SELF EVIDENT and doesn't need scientific evaluation to prove its existence. For example, the Northern Lights are a well known and easily described PHENOMENON, you do not have to understand the scientific aspects of electro-magnetic radiation, atmospheric distortion, and solar wind to witness it, you only need to open your eyes and look. The growth of hair from laser light therapy does not suffer from such obviousness and so does NOT exist as a valid phenomenon. If it is not an existing phenomenon, then only someone with an agenda will attempt to "study" it. Think of s???©ance mediums at the turn of the 20th century.

In reality, the "science" that Dr. Bauman presented had absolutely nothing to do with the growth of hair using laser light. Rather I believe it was a hodge-podge of studies that were thrown out in an effort to lead a lay public to INFER that a non-existent phenomenon had scientific support. The connections were as weak and tenuous as those presented in support of wild theories about UFOs, the Bermuda Triangle, and the Loch Ness Monster.My personal favorite was the paper Dr. Bauman cited about how ATP is "energized" when in the presence of laser light. I think both the public and the scientific community deserve better than that when handing him thousands of dollars for a treatment that uses a phenomenon that does not exist.

Dr. Bauman's credibility really came under fire when it was found out that the ONE person who called the show in support of the laser comb turned out to be HIS OWN PATIENT. This would not have been such a scandal except for the fact that neither Dr. Bauman nor the caller disclosed this very important fact until I started questioning what the caller was claiming. When it came out who the caller really was and that Dr. Bauman actually put him up to it behind the scenes, Mr. Kobren stated on the air that he was never informed that the caller was a patient of Dr. Bauman.

I can't state what Dr. Bauman's intentions were when he asked this patient to clandestinely call in on behalf of laser hair treatments that he sells for thousands of dollars, but I have my suspicions.

Also note that throughout the entire 2 hour live broadcast, only ONE person called in supporting laser therapy. For a show that reaches millions of people each week I think that's enough evidence to show that no such phenomenon exists. It seems that the only people who claim such a phenomenon exists are those who stand to benefit from it -not very convincing to me.

Why is it that grocery store check out clerks whose hands are exposed to laser light all day do not complain of excess hair growth on the hands or forearms? Why is it that people who work in laser printer factories or laboratories that use lasers all day have not reported unwanted hair growth? The obvious answer is that there is no such phenomenon.

The bottom line is that I am convinced my position is correct simply because I know and understand what lasers are. "Laser" is NOT a substance as laser therapy advocates would have you believe, but rather a form of energy. As such it does not contain any mystical powers and cannot affect cellular material in anyway other than to transfer the energy into to heat.

If lasers positively affected the body at the cellular level then advocates of laser therapy would have us implant fiber optics throughout our bodies and light ourselves up like an internal Christmas tree, and while this may sound silly, it is only marginally more ridiculous than shining a laser pointer on your head and expecting it to grow hair.

I look forward to continuing the debate with Dr. Bauman on this forum.

__________________
Feller Medical, PC
Great Neck, NY

Dr. Alan Feller is a member of the Coalition of Independent Hair Restoration Physicians

Providing Hair Transplants and Platelet Rich Plasma (PRP) Treatments

I have to disagree here for a monment....

I used the Hairmax laser comb under lab conditions as directed for 8 weeks and I am sprouting the bushiest head of hair all over my head. And the fact that I am being paid loads of cash by Lexington international to spew for such crap has nothing to do with my impossible claims.....

seriously.....

I wish I had read Dr. Fellers post before wasting cash on that useless piece of crap......

Dr. Feller,

Thank you for taking on this issue head on and standing up for the patients. Too many will be ripped off by this scam.

Since Dr Bauman even stooped to using a setup caller, it tells you a lot about those that push this "product".

Is there anyway to download the program from the archives??


I posted this in another thread and got a good laugh out of it. Found it on ebay, laser pushers!


ATTENTION EBAY BUYERS SOME SELLERS HAVE INSTALLED LASERS IN CHEAP AUTO FLASHLIGHTS AND RECHARGEABLE HOUSE FLASHLIGHTS AND SELLING AS HAIR GROWTH DEVICES.THESE SHODDY MADE UNITS ARE REASON SELLERS CHANGE IDENTITY OFTEN. PLEASE BE CERTAIN AND ASK QUESTIONS AS THESE SELLERS ARE A DISERVICE TO THE PHOTO-BIOSTIMULATION INDUSTRY.


Looks like the scammers are being scammed!! LOL!

Dr. Feller,

Thanks for taking the time with such a detailed post. I am not an advocate for their benefits nor am I convinced that they will do nothing, but I will certainly agree with you that many times it is those selling the products that have the most to gain.

I also wonder if you also believe that there is no scientific benefit to the use of lasers for healing purposes? In my profession, these are the big rage right now and some can be upwards of $10,000 or more. I have tried them myself and can't honestly say if they did anything with limiting pain, but I think that they might have and it seems like we do get decent results. Again, it is similarly based on the idea of the effect it has at the cellular level on the mitochondria. Who really knows?

Thanks again for the post.


NN

I agree with Dr. Feller about the laser, but his post is obnoxious and egotistical.

Curious,

Now you can say that you have been formally introduced. Yes, he is a little that way but actually a very straight shooter and good guy. I personally like that he gives it to you like it is, putting all the bullshit aside.


NN

Wanthairs:
Perhaps you can contact the company and trade in your comb for a new and improved deluxe model

Nobuzz:
I don't know if it has been archived yet, but imagine it will be. You can be sure I'll post a link to it when it comes available.

Your post about laser pushers is funny, but not as funny as doctors beginning to subtly slam laser combs because they're not as good or effective as the large laser units they have in their offices (and bill thousands of dollars for). Looks like the laser combs are taking a big bite out of their business and they are beginning to react.

Watch as more and more doctors start claiming on their websites that their office machines have one hundred lasers and are therefore better and more effective than the "cheap" home units or laser combs. In my book ZERO times ZERO is still ZERO

Also watch out for moving laser heads in different patterns to start making an appearence as well as magnet and new age crystal attachments (just to cover all the bases you know)

__________________
Feller Medical, PC
Great Neck, NY

Dr. Alan Feller is a member of the Coalition of Independent Hair Restoration Physicians

Providing Hair Transplants and Platelet Rich Plasma (PRP) Treatments

Nervous,
I do not believe there is any benefit in using lasers for healing purposes. You can rest assured that if that were true every emergency room and operating room would be bathed in such light. There is no such phenomenon, just wishful thinking at this point. What is your profession and why are lasers the rage in it?

Dr. Bauman also used the mystical effect on the mitochondria to support his claim, but clearly couldn't explain how it related to hair re-growth. Just throwing out a bit of biological jargon is not enough to prove a phenomenon like laser hair growth-although that's exactly what he attempted to do on the air. I'll blow that claim right out of the water right here and now:

We already know that cells that have dht receptors receive a signal to kill themselves when dht arrives. That is the accepted mechanism of hairloss and it is called apoptosis. This means that the programming within the cell is altered to cause it's own death. Now, if you "energize" the mitochondria, the "powerhouse of the cell", then all you are doing is giving it more fuel to carry out its established programming- WHICH IS TO CAUSE CELL DEATH. This will accelerate hair loss, not slow it or reverse it.

It's like increasing the current available to the powersupply in your computer and thinking it's going to somehow change the programming on the hard drive. It's ridiculous and it doesn't happen.

Curious- I'd rather you think less of me and know the truth about supposed laser hair regrowth treatments. I know my post is a bit upsetting and definitely confrontational, but if you know of a better way to get the point across without stepping on toes I'm all ears. I'm not the one making fantastic claims to the public and then charging thousands of dollars for it. And please remember that there is nothing stopping me from doing so-except the fact that I know it doesn't work.

The emperor is wearing no clothes. There, I said it.

__________________
Feller Medical, PC
Great Neck, NY

Dr. Alan Feller is a member of the Coalition of Independent Hair Restoration Physicians

Providing Hair Transplants and Platelet Rich Plasma (PRP) Treatments

Very interesting...

I was completely unaware that this live debate was happening. I just wish I knew ahead of time so I could have tuned in.

I had actually just written my philosophy on how I evaluate hair loss products that I think goes hand and hand with what Dr. Feller is saying - though in a general sense.

One can have all the scientfic evidence in the world (though I have doubt that laser therapy is scientifically credible), even that seems a bit shaky), but without public evidence (visual proof - something that can be seen and observed), the scientific evidence loses credibility - thus the phenomenon only exists in theory, which is not good enough to recommend as a treatment to hair loss sufferers in my opinion.

Let us be careful however, as I do not want to see this thread turn into a Dr. Bauman bash.

In fact, I welcome Dr. Bauman to come here and share his perspectives and views.

A healthy debate is educational and good for the public.

But let's by all means keep it friendly.

Cheers,

Bill

__________________
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To learn about how I restored my hair, view my my hair loss website.

Remember, true beauty radiates from within, not from the skin.

I am not a medical professional and my words should not be taken as medical advice. All opinions and views shared are my own.