To begin with, calling a person a thief and their product snake oil is probably not the best way to get them to help you. I also think it is salient to point out that there are tens of thousands of satisfied HairGenesis?„? customers, some of whom have been regularly using the product for more than ten years. Obviously, we can't make every single person happy and clearly in your case, we have fallen short of the mark.

If you will try to work with me instead of attacking me, I will do my best to help you resolve your concerns. I would suggest that the best way to get this in motion is for you to provide us with some contact info. so that we can follow up.

Once we hear from you I'll ask our customer care manager to contact you in order to see what we can do to help get the matter taken care of. I will also stay in the loop as appropriate. Please direct an email to hairgenesis@aol.com and we'll go from there.

signed,

Geno Marcovici, Ph.D.

Geno,

Since you are here representing HairGenesis, and believe in its efficacy, I feel that a more detailed discussion would certainly benefit our members and guests.

I admit that I am a skeptic of just about any hair loss product until I see the proof which includes clinical evidence and public third party before/after photos.

My cynicism is a bi-product of the promotional propoganda of companies making too many promises without delivering. Marketing tactics (that I feel should be illegal) go far beyond the hair loss industry but is certainly prevalent here.

So keeping an open mind but skeptical, here are some questions and comments for consideration.

1. You say that saw palmetto extract (serenoa repens) inhibits both type II and type I 5-alpha-reductase. Since type I 5-alpha-reductase enzymes are found mostly in the brain, what potential dangers are there from using saw palmetto extract long term? This question lingers for dutasteride, which also inhibits both types.

2. Your ingredients in the oral softgels are listed below from your website:

A PROPRIETARY ORAL FORMULATION CONTAINING:
Saw Palmetto Berry Extract, Capric acid, Caprylic acid, Caproic acid, Lauric Acid, Palmitic Acid, Oleic Acid, Beta-Sitosterol, Stigmasterol, Cycloartenol, Lupeol, Lupenone, 24-Methyl-Cycloartenol, Oligomeric Proantho-Cyanidin, Gamma Linolenic Acid, Gamma Linoleic Acid, Lecithin, Niacin, Macadamia Nut Oil, Borage Oil, Evening Primrose Oil, Epigallocatechin-3-Gallate, Genestein, Pygeum Africanum, Japanese Green Tea Extract, Biotin, Glycerin, Purified Water, Yellow Beeswax, Extra Virgin Olive Oil, Gelatin, Titanium Dioxide, FD&C Red #40, Yellow #6, Blue #1

I am pretty researched in saw palmetto however, what, if any other ingredient found in the softgel has been conjectured/proven to fight hair loss? What synergistic effect (if any) exists between saw palmetto and any of these other ingredients? Do you have any proof or documentation on this?

3. The ingredients in your topical solution are listed below from your website:

PROPRIETARY TOPICAL FORMULATION CONTAINING:
Isoproyl alcohol, Oleic Acid, LSESr 85/95% Liposterolic Content (Saw Palmetto Extract), Lauric Acid, Palmitic Acid, Beta-Sitosterol, Stigmasterol, Cycloartenol, Lupeol, Lupenone, 24-Methyl-Cycloartenol, Oligomeric Proantho-Cyanidin, Oleth-20, Evening Primrose Oil, Genestein, Pygeum Africana Extract, Japanese Green Tea Extract, GLA Borage Oil, Macadamia Nut Oil, Propylene Glycol, Nonoxynol 10, Polysorbate 80, Camellia Sinesis Extract, Biotin

I was honestly surprised not to see ketoconazole or azelaic acid in the list. In my research, I have not found any studies supporting that saw palmetto used topically effectively inhibits DHT. What support, if any, exists tjat saw palmetto or any of these other ingredients can help prevent, slow down, or stop hair loss. What about reversing the miniaturization process?

4. The claims on your website state that your shampoo and conditioner block DHT. Which ingredients when applied in the forum of shampoo and conditioner are proven and where can I find the evidence for this? What synergistic effect if any of the combination of ingredients have? Is there any public documentation on this?

Now some comments...

I'd suspect that if a product really works, especially in a day where information is widely available on the internet, especially public discussion forums, it surprises me that I have not read real HairGenesis patient success stories with compelling before/after photos on this forum in the past.

The photos on your website are extremely poor in quality, resolution, and in different lighting and angles. Educated members of this community expect good quality realistic photos and won't buy into marketing propaganda. I would expect more compelling photos including closeups of areas showing an increase in terminal hair count.

My advice to you is....

If your products work (apart from any additional treatment such as finasteride, minoxidil, etc.), let's see some real compelling high resolution photos instead of the blurry thumbnails that are hardly conclusive on your website.

I hope you will stick around and indulge us and if you can provide the proof your product works, you may just make a believer out of me.

Best wishes,

Bill

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Bill-

I appreciate the opportunity to respond to the excellent questions you've raised. I'll do my best below. I will [bracket] my comments so as to ease differentiation from yours. You are asking questions that, to a substantive degree, require third-party citation. Accordingly, I will provide the Journal cite in the body of each response as appropriate. Upon your review, I look forward to your additional questions or comments. I'm going to need to use a lot of "three dollar words" in my response. If you have any questions about a word or a concept, let me know and I'll try to explain in plain English.

Geno,

Since you are here representing HairGenesis, and believe in its efficacy, I feel that a more detailed discussion would certainly benefit our members and guests.

I admit that I am a skeptic of just about any hair loss product until I see the proof which includes clinical evidence and public third party before/after photos.

[Fair enough.]

My cynicism is a bi-product of the promotional propoganda of companies making too many promises without delivering. Marketing tactics (that I feel should be illegal) go far beyond the hair loss industry but is certainly prevalent here.

[I agree. Please bear in mind that I also came from the perspective of a consumer searching for the most useful options to treat my own hair loss. In 1984 I was just a guy who hadn't given the subject much thought until I started losing my hair. I quickly became shocked and then dismayed by how few -- and how substandard the treatment options were.]

So keeping an open mind but skeptical, here are some questions and comments for consideration.

1. You say that saw palmetto extract (serenoa repens) inhibits both type II and type I 5-alpha-reductase. Since type I 5-alpha-reductase enzymes are found mostly in the brain, what potential dangers are there from using saw palmetto extract long term? This question lingers for dutasteride, which also inhibits both types.

[Actually, type 1 5AR localizes to many tissues other than CNS (i.e. brain), including liver, prostate &, importantly, squamous stratifying epithelia (e.g. skin/hair follicles). There are numerous published cites which articulate this fact, here are two. If you would like ten or fifteen more, please let me know and I'll provide them.

Eur Urol. 2008 Feb;53(2):244-52. Epub 2007 Nov 5.

Biochem Biophys Res Commun. 2008 Apr 18;368(4):858-64. Epub 2008 Feb 5

Your question re. dutasteride presupposes a conclusion that I cannot support; i.e. that dutasteride and saw palmetto operate through like mechanisms of action. To my knowledge, saw palmetto works in the steroid hormone pathway by modulating the pH level of the cellular membrane. This necessarily affects the intracellular milieu -- and specifically -- it disrupts the efficiency by which androgen receptor binds to its endogenous ligand for translocation to the cell nucleus. As you may be aware, to influence gene transcription of the relevant protein products in the hair follicle it is necessary for the androgen receptor ligand complex to move from the membrane to the nucleus. This process is thought to be interrupted by the mechanism I've just described. By way of contrast, dutasteride, finasteride and other anti-androgens operate by competitively blocking the conversion of T to DHT thus changing the homeostatic level of these steroid hormones. This is one reason why the potential for feminizing birth defects and other negative side effects exist via the use of these drugs. Importantly, this mode of action is distinct from that which governs the activity of saw palmetto.

If I understand it correctly, second part of your question asks what the long-term risks are for saw palmetto. Historically, saw palmetto has been used as a tool in traditional medicine for many hundreds -- perhaps thousands -- of years. Saw palmetto has also been used to treat BPH in Europe for at least 50 years. In Europe, saw palmetto is treated more like a drug than a nutritional supplement. Accordingly, the substance has undergone a great deal of empirical scrutiny. It is noteworthy that in the context of BPH saw palmetto, ingested orally, has established a remarkable track record for safety.

In our clinic, we began testing saw palmetto and other novel substances against pattern hair loss in 1994. Importantly, we only used substances and dose levels that we knew to be safe. From 1994 to 1998, using various test formulations, we ran a number of open label (patient knows what they are ingesting) trials. Since the patient population testing these formulas was also part of our larger surgical/research population, regular blood assays were performed.

The patients were also monitored during scheduled clinical evaluation visits. It is useful to point out that during this period, our clinic was also functioning as an IRB monitored drug study site. So the facility itself was audited for good clinical practices on a frequent basis. The outcome of these studies showed safety and efficacy. This led to the design and implementation of a placebo-controlled study.

Additionally, HairGenesis?„?, which contains high levels of saw palmetto, has been in widespread use for more than ten years. The product has likewise demonstrated an excellent safety track record.]

2. Your ingredients in the oral softgels are listed below from your website:

A PROPRIETARY ORAL FORMULATION CONTAINING:
Saw Palmetto Berry Extract, Capric acid, Caprylic acid, Caproic acid, Lauric Acid, Palmitic Acid, Oleic Acid, Beta-Sitosterol, Stigmasterol, Cycloartenol, Lupeol, Lupenone, 24-Methyl-Cycloartenol, Oligomeric Proantho-Cyanidin, Gamma Linolenic Acid, Gamma Linoleic Acid, Lecithin, Niacin, Macadamia Nut Oil, Borage Oil, Evening Primrose Oil, Epigallocatechin-3-Gallate, Genestein, Pygeum Africanum, Japanese Green Tea Extract, Biotin, Glycerin, Purified Water, Yellow Beeswax, Extra Virgin Olive Oil, Gelatin, Titanium Dioxide, FD&C Red #40, Yellow #6, Blue #1

I am pretty researched in saw palmetto however, what, if any other ingredient found in the softgel has been conjectured/proven to fight hair loss? What synergistic effect (if any) exists between saw palmetto and any of these other ingredients? Do you have any proof or documentation on this?

[As we've learned through hard experience, our competitors are very good at "borrowing" our ideas and using the fruits of our hard work as their own. So we must be reasonably cautious in what we disclose. In plain English, there is a fine line between disclosing what we know about our product's composition and printing a roadmap for our competitors to follow. Let's start by taking a selection from our formulation composition and providing a third-party published cite demonstrating positive benefit in a relevant tissue model, in particular the inhibition of 5 alpha reductase.

BETASITOSTEROL

Betasitosterol, a glycoside of saw palmetto, showed up on our radar screen because of its ability to inhibit the activity of 5 alpha reductase mediated pathology in the hair follicle. However, as we've learned, beta sitosterol exerts pleiotropic affects that may enhance the utility of this interesting material.

Proc West Pharmacol Soc. 2003;46:153-5.

EPIGALLOCATECHIN-3-GALLATE

EGCG is touted for its benefit as a cancer-preventative. The substance is also noteworthy for its role in modulating steroidogenesis, and in particularly, its activity in inhibiting 5 alpha reductase. Like certain other naturally-derived chemicals, EGCG will find use in many treatments for skin conditions and other pathologies.

Biochem Pharmacol. 2002 Mar 15;63(6):1165-76



GENESTEIN

Genestein also exhibits multi-faceted activity. It is being extensively studied for its utility in the context of neoplastic ablation. For our purposes, it has been observed that genestein is a non-competitive inhibitor of 5 alpha reductase.

J Endocrinol. 1995 Nov;147(2):295-302.]

3. The ingredients in your topical solution are listed below from your website:

PROPRIETARY TOPICAL FORMULATION CONTAINING:
Isoproyl alcohol, Oleic Acid, LSESr 85/95% Liposterolic Content (Saw Palmetto Extract), Lauric Acid, Palmitic Acid, Beta-Sitosterol, Stigmasterol, Cycloartenol, Lupeol, Lupenone, 24-Methyl-Cycloartenol, Oligomeric Proantho-Cyanidin, Oleth-20, Evening Primrose Oil, Genestein, Pygeum Africana Extract, Japanese Green Tea Extract, GLA Borage Oil, Macadamia Nut Oil, Propylene Glycol, Nonoxynol 10, Polysorbate 80, Camellia Sinesis Extract, Biotin

I was honestly surprised not to see ketoconazole or azelaic acid in the list. In my research, I have not found any studies supporting that saw palmetto used topically effectively inhibits DHT. What support, if any, exists tjat saw palmetto or any of these other ingredients can help prevent, slow down, or stop hair loss. What about reversing the miniaturization process?

[Long ago, we considered and ruled out both ketoconazole and azelic acid for our formulations. As to the notion of using saw palmetto or other substances locally to treat hair loss, a paradigm for this approach exists in the treatment of other skin disease. Let me explain.

Many people have had a skin rash and been given oral medication and topical creams with similar drugs in both compositions. The reason for this is that the skin is uniquely amenable to local and systemic therapy. When we recognize that hair follicles are merely skin appendages, the idea of using concomitant therapy makes even more sense.]

4. The claims on your website state that your shampoo and conditioner block DHT. Which ingredients when applied in the forum of shampoo and conditioner are proven and where can I find the evidence for this? What synergistic effect if any of the combination of ingredients have? Is there any public documentation on this?

[Please see the descriptive response for genestein, EGCG & beta sitoserol above.]

Now some comments...

I'd suspect that if a product really works, especially in a day where information is widely available on the internet, especially public discussion forums, it surprises me that I have not read real HairGenesis patient success stories with compelling before/after photos on this forum in the past.

[This is a valid observation. It is as unfortunate as it is true that "in this day and age" a great deal of money is required for publicity and marketing. We also could have put the bulk of our capital into marketing. And with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, I think we would have done a better job in this regard. But instead, we put a great deal of money into research. And we put another big pot of money into business litigation. The result of this is that we have better supporting research, and arguably better formulations than our competition, but we've been limited in our ability to disseminate this fact because marketing costs are astronomical.]

The photos on your website are extremely poor in quality, resolution, and in different lighting and angles. Educated members of this community expect good quality realistic photos and won't buy into marketing propaganda. I would expect more compelling photos including closeups of areas showing an increase in terminal hair count.

[In a separate email I will send you high resolution photos. At some point in the not too distant future, we will be sponsoring a new clinical study within which more longitudinal patient photos will be gathered. I will also send you a selection of unsolicited customer comments describing their experience in using our product.]

My advice to you is....

If your products work (apart from any additional treatment such as finasteride, minoxidil, etc.), let's see some real compelling high resolution photos instead of the blurry thumbnails that are hardly conclusive on your website.

[Feel free to post what I send you along with your critical feedback]

I hope you will stick around and indulge us and if you can provide the proof your product works, you may just make a believer out of me.

[Time permitting, I will be happy to interact on your forum. As previously mentioned, we're in the midst of new research. Presuming the outcome is noteworthy, this work will hopefully be published in the literature. We will also have a press release which I will send to your attention. Thanks for giving me a chance to interact with you and others on this forum. I enjoy the challenge.

kind regards,

gm]

Best wishes,

Bill

I appreciate the feedback and I recognize that additional studies enrolling larger numbers of study subjects will be a useful goal. However I'm not sure of the basis under which JohnS arrives at his conclusion that the published study ".....falls way below the standards science has established for a true double blinded placebo controlled study."

The fact is, modest though the number of study subjects was, the was indeed a true double-blind, placebo-controlled, randomized clinical trial. The purpose of the work was to establish a proof of principle --- which it did.

Were this not up to the appropriate standards, the manuscript describing the data would never have not been accepted in the peer-reviewed medical literature.

Modest though it was, I see the need to defend this study for a number of reasons. First and foremost, our research, including this published work, represents, by far, the most objective and critical analysis undertaken in examination of naturally-derived substances in their ability to ameliorate the clinical progression of pattern hair loss.

Given the known negative side effects associated with current pharmacotherapy, I'd think that our efforts would be lauded, not vilified.

No one, least of all us, is trying to say that we have run phase 1, 2, & 3 drug trials on HairGenesis?„?. We're merely reporting the fact that for the first time ever, a non-drug hair loss treatment has been subjected to reasonable objective review and passed muster.

Is this really cause to slam us for our efforts? Perhaps the, essentially non-existent research efforts of our competitors warrant greater praise?

Unlike so many others in the hair loss industry, we are investing a substantial share of our capital as well as our time and effort into validating our products. We're working to make better formulas to ease the mental anguish that comes with pattern hair loss. This is who we are. This is why we're here.

So while I appreciate the need for critical review, I think maybe some of these folks are kicking the wrong dog. Please Mr. JohnS explain, what exactly am I failing to grasp?

signed,

Geno Marcovici, Ph.D.

Remarkable Effects of Beta-Sitosterol
In a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, multicenter study of 200 men with benign prostate enlargement, half the group received 180 mg of beta-sitosterol daily, while the other half received placebo.

After six months, the beta-sitosterol group saw improvement in the International Prostate Symptom Score, the measurement of urine flow (Qmax), and the amount of residual urine remaining in the bladder (PVR).1

The beta-sitosterol group showed a 7.4-point decrease in the International Prostate Symptom Score, compared to a decrease of only 2.1 points in the placebo group. This was a significant 3.5-fold improvement in the men taking beta-sitosterol (Figure 1).1

The measurement of urinary flow increased to an average of 15.2 milliliters (ml) per second from 9.9 ml/second in the men receiving beta- sitosterol. The placebo group only increased to 11.4 ml/second from 10.2 ml/second at baseline. Urinary flow thus improved almost 35% in the group taking beta-sitosterol, compared to only 11% in the placebo group.1

Most remarkably, residual urine in the bladder decreased to 30.4 ml from 65.8 ml in the men using beta-sitosterol ... a reduction of almost 54%! In the placebo group, residual bladder urine declined from 64.8 ml to 54.3 ml ... a reduction of only around 16%.1

In a follow-up study that evaluated durability of response to beta-sitosterol, the beneficial effects for beta-sitosterol were found to be maintained during an additional 18 months of observation.2

Figure 1 shows the significant difference in the International Prostate Symptom Score in men receiving beta-sitosterol compared to placebo.

Benefits of Beta-Sitosterol Confirmed
To confirm these remarkable effects of beta-sitosterol, another study was performed and the results were published in the British Journal of Urology. The study involved 177 patients with benign prostate enlargement. Patients received 130 mg of beta-sitosterol each day and were monitored for more than six months. Measurements of the International Prostate Symptom Score, urinary flow, and residual urine in the bladder after voiding were recorded.3

On average, urinary flow values increased by 4.5 ml/second while residual urine volumes decreased by a substantial 33.5 ml. The International Prostate Symptom Scores showed a statistically significant improvement. These results with beta-sitosterol are comparable to those seen with the commonly prescribed drug Proscar?®, used to treat benign prostate enlargement.3

found this abc 20/20 special on hairgenesis
Hairgenesis 20/20 abc exposed

Dr Marcovici,
I actually took the time to read through this entire thread. I must admit, I was rather taken back by all of the scientific lingo but you seemed sincere in your efforts once I got through the things I did not understand. It was not until I looked at the 20/20 commentary that I realized, you are a snake oil salesman. You lost all credibility with me after seeing that joke of an interview. You were caught with your pants down, just admit it. Why would you go to school for so long to become a doctor only to trash your credibility to sell snake oil? Greed perhaps? Praying off men and women who truely are affected by baldness is not cool. Then again, how could you truely understand, you have great hair. I have a BA and I could not imagine throwing away what I have worked so hard for let alone doing it after receiving my MD. I would never buy or reccomend anyone to buy your product just based on that interview regardless of what you say. Good luck.

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