nobuzz and everyone,

Though I'm certainly NOT convinced that the lasercomb will do anything to combat hairloss, I don't want to rule it out as a POSSIBILITY if there are credible doctors like Dr. Bauman that state that it could have some merit. BUT, personally, I wo'nt recommend it until I see research and evidence that it really works.

Whereas HT is certainly the only guaranteed option of re-establishing some hair on the top of our heads, certainly if we stated that this was the ONLY option, we'd have to rule out finasteride and minoxodil as well.

Certainly you won't find me advocating the lasercomb ANYWHERE, but I'm open to the research as it comes. Whereas Dr. Feller (one of the esteemed doctors that disregards that laser technology does anything to stimulate growth) may disagree with Dr. Bauman, he does admit and state that Dr. Bauman is an esteemed collegue and holds him in high respect.

That being said, I am open to the research...but until I can be convinced that it really has some merit, I certainly won't be recommending it. I think our motto in this field so-to-speak, has to be "unknown until proven that it works". Being skeptical is very valid, especially since there are many scams out there...I myself have tried many of them before I really started researching at about 26 years of age.

It WOULD be nice if the laser comb or any laser technology had some validity...but right now, to me, it is a big unknown. THOUGH, it does bother me that since I've been around on the forums, I haven't really seen one person validate any claims of it working for them and laser technology HAS been around for years. So in my eyes, it doesn't look good...but I'd still like to see more research.

Bill

__________________
Managing Publisher of the Hair Transplant Network, the Hair Loss Learning Center, the Hair Loss Q&A Blog and the Hair Loss Forum and Social Community

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To learn about how I restored my hair, view my my hair loss website.

Remember, true beauty radiates from within, not from the skin.

I am not a medical professional and my words should not be taken as medical advice. All opinions and views shared are my own.

Bill, I wouldn't disagree that laser therapy requires more resarch. The catalog of 3000 papers is just scratching the surface of how low level laser therapy affects cell-metabolism and living organisms. (Most of the papers can be found at www.laser.nu) Of course, with hair loss, there are very few studies.

It is important to remember that it took YEARS before propecia was recommended more than "rarely" in the field of hair restoration--even after the research and FDA approval. However, not many would admit to 'sneering' at Propecia back then... and how long it took them to feel comfortable recommending the treatment.
Also, I would NEVER advocate the lasercomb as being the end-all be-all... especially with so many new medical-device versions that are coming to market. There are literally dozens of laser devices that are now available, in-office and home units--each with their own pros and cons. Keep in mind that only a very small handful of patients are here in the htn forums--so sometimes we can get a distorted view...

For those looking for a '3rd party testimonial' of a laser patient, here's a laser-related article for you from a South Florida paper: http://www.palmbeachpost.com/accent/content/accent/epap...04/14/0414laser.html April is a patient of mine who had a good result using only pure laser therapy. The reporter first visited my office in 2002, about two and a half years after I started using laser therapy.

The conclusions from initial research is quite clear. I would once again encourage anyone interested to READ what the FDA has published.http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/pdf6/K060305.pdf The increase in terminal hair density was statistically significant. I would argue that this document makes laser therapy a little less of 'a big unknown.' Does it not?

Dr. B.

__________________
Alan J. Bauman, M.D.
Medical Director
Bauman Medical Group
Boca Raton, FL USA
http://www.baumanmedical.com

Bill, I agree that it would be nice to see research and photos of real patient results (who are not also on Fin and Minox).

The big problem is that the FDA approval of this "unknown" is going to be all the research and proof many gullible patients will need to fork out their hard earned dollars on. The cat is out of the bag.

For the patients who fall for this I hope they get their money's worth - but, I doubt they will.

Can we hear from some of you who have tried this product with or without success?

I predict laser cheerleading plants will start showing up here more often. A little skeptisism is prudent here. Bill, glad you will not be recommending this yet my open-minded friend!

Dr. Bauman,

Thank you for your continually providing information for us regarding laser therapy. I would admit that the initial research according to that document does show promise...but I'm trying to combine this information with the information posted by JoTronic regarding 510K approval processes. So if you will, I"m still "combing" (pun intended :P) through the data to make sense of it all. What I've concluded at this point based on what I've read is simple: more data is needed in order for me to make a proper decision about whether any type of laser therapy should be recommended as an OPTION to fight against hairloss. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. So whereas you won't hear me "snearing" at laser therapy like many do, you certainly won't hear me advocate it until I do see more proof and real results from people using it.

But this creates a dilemma....how do we really know if it works if there aren't people out there using it to report back their results? Yet at the same time, I wouldn't want to recommend people go out there and do it with the hopes that it WILL work, because it's a lot of money to blow if not.

So I remain on the fence until I see clear evidence without any ambiguity. It's also the same reason why I don't typically recommend certain doctors...they may or may not be excellent...but if I haven't seen enough work done by them (before/after photos posted by the clinic AND real patients), I won't be comfortable making a personal recommendation. What others do and how they handle it, of course, is up to them. I'm one voice on the forum

So in conclusion Dr. Bauman...I'd appreciate hearing about any clinical findings that either support or deny the performance of laser therapy as related to hairloss.

Nobuzz,

I agree with everything you are saying 100%. I think we need a level of skeptisism because of all the false marketing tactics out there. We MUST be the voice of reason on this forum that help paint the reality picture for seeking patients rather than provide false dreams. I've been down that road far too many times...and I lost a lot of ground on wasted miracle formulas.

Well, as we know, "cheerleaders" can be easily spotted. There is no need to post generalities about how awesome laser therapy is...we want before/after pictures and detailed regimes to support the claim. I imagine, even so, a certain level of skeptisicm must be kept until we see something relatively consistent.

Bill

__________________
Managing Publisher of the Hair Transplant Network, the Hair Loss Learning Center, the Hair Loss Q&A Blog and the Hair Loss Forum and Social Community

Follow us on Facebook | Twitter | YouTube

Subscribe to our Newsletters | How We Recommend Physicians

-----

To learn about how I restored my hair, view my my hair loss website.

Remember, true beauty radiates from within, not from the skin.

I am not a medical professional and my words should not be taken as medical advice. All opinions and views shared are my own.

Seriously guys.....this forum I thought would continue to steer people away from being misled. It's nice to make nice with a Doctor, I guess, but why on this subject? Where's the results, pictures, volumes of success. And further more where's the disclosure? Why would a doctor post on message board? For the good of all mankind?

THE LASER COMB DOESN'T WORK. IT SUCKS. THE FDA HAS A LONG TRACK RECORD OF APPROVING IFFY PRODUCTS.

I understand this community is doing well, but entertaining this kind of crap in a civil way just keeps the door open to everything bad about the industry. The board used to slam scams and butchers. Now we're more sensitive. Buyer beware.

bezane,

I am not suggesting that it works...I'm asking for more research.

I'm only stating that I don't want to make statements that have no proof or validity either way. I will NOT recommend the product at this time UNTIL THERE IS PROOF, which may never happen. I've said that before...read above. BUT, I still will state that I'd be interested in seeing any research that points out that it does work, whether it be laser therapy or something else.

I think having an open mind is imperative to research...period. That's the whole point of what I'm stating.

Nobody here is trying to "make nice" with any doctors, at least I certainly am not and could care less. If you have actually read some of my posts, you'll see that I've challenged and disagreed with the best of them and told them as such through countless debates. Read more and learn more about this community before you start insulting everyone's intelligence.

Bill

__________________
Managing Publisher of the Hair Transplant Network, the Hair Loss Learning Center, the Hair Loss Q&A Blog and the Hair Loss Forum and Social Community

Follow us on Facebook | Twitter | YouTube

Subscribe to our Newsletters | How We Recommend Physicians

-----

To learn about how I restored my hair, view my my hair loss website.

Remember, true beauty radiates from within, not from the skin.

I am not a medical professional and my words should not be taken as medical advice. All opinions and views shared are my own.

New, Peer-Reviewed Scientific Report (April 2007): Hair Growth Stimulation in Laser Hair Removal Patients. Physicians from Spain report that over 10% of 543 hair removal patients experienced hair stimulation from a laser hair removal treatment. This phenomenon occurred within the treated area and also in area adjacent to the treated area. It is postulated by the physicians in the report that 'sub-therapeutic' energy that was delivered to the area induced terminal hair growth. They identified the most important 'risk' of this unwanted, paradoxical terminal hair growth as the 'presence of fine hair growth' within the treated area. (p.300)

Scientific reports such as these give us some clues as to which hereditary hair loss patients might be a good candidate for laser hair therapy.

Follow this link to download the .pdf version of the published report: http://baumanmedical.typepad.com/fol...ir_remova.html


Lasers in Surgery and Medicine 39:297-301 (2007) "Hair Stimulation Following Laser and Intense Pulsed Light Photo-Epilation: Review of 543 Cases and Ways to Manage It"

__________________
Alan J. Bauman, M.D.
Medical Director
Bauman Medical Group
Boca Raton, FL USA
http://www.baumanmedical.com

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DrBauman:

Physicians from Spain (who are these Physicians???)

report that over 10% of 543 hair removal patients experienced hair stimulation from a laser hair removal treatment. This phenomenon occurred within the treated area and also in area adjacent to the treated area. It is postulated by the physicians in the report that 'sub-therapeutic' energy that was delivered to the area induced terminal hair growth. They identified the most important 'risk' of this unwanted, paradoxical terminal hair growth as the 'presence of fine hair growth' within the treated area.


Wow! A 10% chance of getting some "fine hair growth"!!! Those are great odds



"Scientific reports such as these give us some clues as to which hereditary hair loss patients might be a good candidate for laser hair therapy".


I wonder if patients will be sold their procedures based on if they are a good candidate or not. I doubt it, most laser clinics will probably be very willing to take your money.

Thanks for the info anyway Dr Bauman.

No, no. You're reading it wrong. Read it again. It says they think the reason 10% of the people had terminal hair growth was because those people originally had some fine hairs around the area being treated and those fine hairs grew thicker and longer.

As for the 10% figure... we don't know how good that is because we don't know what percentage of the 543 had any fine hairs around the area being treated to begin with.

However if we assume that not everyone had fine vellous hairs to begin with than the percentage of people who had fine hair grow into terminal hair increases accordingly.

Behappy,

I think this is still reaching, most everyone, even NW6's have fine vellous hair which makes no real difference in your appearance. Where is the photographic evidence of this phenomina these doctors report? I am sure they have some but how could we know the patients are not on fin and minox under these trials? I do not trust this whole laser thing. Just my opinion.