Coalition Surgeons

Sparky · #81 **Top** 10-30-2010, 04:21 PM

Just thought i'd add that i'm not a fan of dissolvable sutures having had them, they are a right pain when they start to dissolve.

Bill - Managing Publisher · #82 **Top** 10-30-2010, 04:33 PM

Whirlwind,

I appreciate your reply and I'm sorry if I misunderstood or misinterpreted your intentions.

I'm a little confused though. Did Dr. Madhu and/or his staff tell you that if you pay cash that you wouldn't get a receipt? No matter how you pay (cash, check, credit card, loan, etc), it's common practice for clinics to provide a receipt. Thus, I'm not sure why you think you wouldn't get one. But when in doubt, ask the clinic how they handle processing payments and I'm sure you'll get a clear answer.

As to why I found it suspicious that you were insisting on paying by check, I've personally witnessed many people (in a business environment) get royally ripped off by accepting personal checks for services that never cleared because the money wasn't in the account. Personally, I don't think any business should accept personal checks over a certain amount to avoid potentially losing money.

As for Dr. Madhu's policies and certifications, I recommend contacting his clinic directly. Whether you speak with the doctor himself or his staff, they'd certainly be able to address this much more clearly than the members of this community.

You are then welcome to share your findings with this community by posting a reply to the topic.

We take all concerns posted about clinics on this forum very seriously and certainly want to be sure we're recommending the very best hair transplant physicians. Obviously, if anything is found that merits reason for concern, I will perform further investigation by contacting Dr. Madhu directly.

Best wishes in selecting a quality hair transplant physician,

Bill

whirlwind · #83 **Top** 10-31-2010, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill - Managing Publisher

Whirlwind,
I appreciate your reply and I'm sorry if I misunderstood or misinterpreted your intentions.

No offence taken at all. I know you're just looking out for this community.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill - Managing Publisher

I'm a little confused though. Did Dr. Madhu and/or his staff tell you that if you pay cash that you wouldn't get a receipt? No matter how you pay (cash, check, credit card, loan, etc), it's common practice for clinics to provide a receipt. Thus, I'm not sure why you think you wouldn't get one. But when in doubt, ask the clinic how they handle processing payments and I'm sure you'll get a clear answer.

Ok. I'll admit the staff did not explicitly mention that they will not give an invoice, but they told me that if I paid by cash, I would not have to pay the 10.3% service tax (VAT).
Now, this is possible ONLY IF the service provider (the clinic) is not declaring the cash income to the government and thus avoiding paying income tax on that amount. This is what we call black money. This can be done in two ways:
1. Accept cash payment and give no invoice.
2. Accept cash payment and give a 'token' invoice. In local parlance, we term this is a 'chaloo bill'. This bill will have the official letterhead of the company, and will mention the amount paid and will be signed by a representative. However, it will not stand up in any court of law as no service tax has been paid and the transaction has not been declared to the government. This practice is quite common among small businesses and retailers in India.
However, when an established ISO 9001 certified clinic dealing in a serious surgery such as hair trasnplantation asks me to pay in cash and avoid service tax, it sets alarm bells ringing in my head.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill - Managing Publisher

As to why I found it suspicious that you were insisting on paying by check, I've personally witnessed many people (in a business environment) get royally ripped off by accepting personal checks for services that never cleared because the money wasn't in the account. Personally, I don't think any business should accept personal checks over a certain amount to avoid potentially losing money.

I am not insisting on cheques. I am ok with cheques/Demand Drafts/Wire Transfer or anything else that has a written and documented record.
Apart from my concerns about cash expressed above, also consider it is not safe to be tugging along a bagful of cash across India.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill - Managing Publisher

As for Dr. Madhu's policies and certifications, I recommend contacting his clinic directly. Whether you speak with the doctor himself or his staff, they'd certainly be able to address this much more clearly than the members of this community. You are then welcome to share your findings with this community by posting a reply to the topic.

Sure thing. I'll email him as well. Will keep the community posted if I receive a reply on email instead of the forum.

Disclaimer: I am not alleging that Dr. Madhu's clinic IS indulging in unethical/unprofessional practices or/and evading tax. I am stating how it appears to the average consumer based on his business policies.

Dr M Humayun Mohmand · #84 **Top** 10-31-2010, 06:36 AM

I was send this mail to give my honest comments and here are my comments as an unbiased man.

Quote:

1. Dr. Madhu's website hairhospi.com states that they have an ISO 9001 certification. Dr. Madhu has himself stated on this forum that his clinic was fully ready only by end last year. It is rather hard to believe that they have managed to achieve an ISO quality management certification in less than a year. Dr Madhu: Can you point us to an online link giving more details about the same or post the certificate online?

I think to have ISO certification is good. now he might have been a bit irrational but I do not see any problem with that but, i wish it would have been done properly. so YES, I agree that it was not a right way to do things.

Quote:

2. Take a look at the following donor scars from a HT done by Dr. Madhu:
Hair Restoration Journal -Donar Scar Pics
Why are there TWO scars and why do they look so horrendous?

I have previously commented on that issue. All of us can have a good or bad scar. So quality of the scar is not an issue at all. we are all surgeons and have good or bad results. But I cannot accept two good or bad scars. Having two scars just because a patient wants density and bigger session does not justify doing two scars at all. But then he is not the only one who does this. There are loads of other doctors and some of them have openly say it at the conference. I am strongly oppose to this concept of two scars.

Quote:

3. Most HT surgeons usually shave the recipient area before the transplant. Dr. Madhu's clinic offers an alternative where they do the HT without shaving off any hair on the recipient area for an extra charge of $400. Is this a standard practice the world over? Are the results one gets with and without shaving the recipient area the same?

I also have no issues of shaving the recipient area before hair transplant or not shaving it. But I do not like the idea of charging extra 400$ for that. I agree it could be a policy already explained in a consultation but it does not seem to be a fair game. Because, all this is to save time. Doing plantation between hair is slow and time consuming so this is how they charge for that time loss. I do not see this as a professional way of practice. Please do not mind my words this is what I am, before being a doctor I am a human and a professional man. so I feel this as a way of charging more than what one professional doctor of high moral values should do.

Quote:

4. Dr. Madhu's clinic charges $100 extra for dissolvable sutures. Aren't dissolvable sutures a de-facto part of HT nowadays? Why even make it optional?

Once again this is totally rubbish. I will use a dissolvable or permanent suture based on my clinical judgement but on a special request I will not charge that person extra money. Again the reason is that dissolvable suture take twice as long and non dissolvable ones.

Quote:

5. Dr. Madhu's clinic charges Rs. 45/graft and insists on cash payment. When I called and insisted on paying by cheque/DD, the receptionist said they would allow a maximum of 40% by card/cheque/DD and the rest would have to be cash. I'm not even sure if we get a full invoice. I find this very odd and disturbing for an established practice that is apparently ISO 9001 certified.
Pls let us know the reasons for the same.

Any person who can cheat a government can cheat any one. so if any doctor does not give receipt, he is not a true professional man. Now ISO 9001 has nothing to do with the honesty. I would ask Dr Madhu not to do this and rob his country with the TAX he deserve to pay. In my country the economy is even worst than India, people do pay me cash and some high ups even do not want me to give them a receipt, but we give receipt as a policy. As I do not want any of my employee to think I am hiding the money as all my employee gets a share from the profit, they deserve this because they play the most important part in my success as a team. But TAX EVASION is a crime.
I hope this was enough.

As far as US or WE, irrespective of that wrong thing is wrong. we cant keep on ignoring the non-professionalism in our community

Bill - Managing Publisher · #85 **Top** 11-01-2010, 10:27 AM

Whirlwind,

Instead of making all kinds of assumptions on why Dr. Madhu offered you a price break and what he and his clinic may be doing behind the scenes, why not ask him or his staff directly for an answer? It sounds to me that he was just trying to do you a favor but it doesn't sound like was he suggesting that cash was the only form of payment they accepted. I do certainly agree however, that carrying a bag of cash around is not the best idea. But there are certainly other ways to pay by cash (like wire transfers) without having to physicially hand it over to their clinic.

But since you said you'd email the clinic about this, we'll wait for their response. Our editorial assistant Blake also notified Dr. Madhu about this topic so that he can respond.

Best wishes,

Bill

Bill - Managing Publisher · #86 **Top** 11-01-2010, 10:34 AM

Dr. Mohmand,

I'm surprised that as a professional and ethical hair transplant surgeon that you would respond to such a topic without first contacting your colleague Dr. Madhu to discuss the truthfulness of these concerns privately. You are responding to an anonymous poster without knowing the details of Dr. Madhu's practice and without obtaining his side of the story.

Frankly, I find your response to this topic without first discussing it with Dr. Madhu unbecoming of an ethical hair transplant surgeon and highly unprofessional.

But since you've decided to involve yourself, I encourage you now to do the right thing by calling Dr. Madhu to discuss these issues and then formulating a reply based on hearing both sides of the story.

Bill

Dr M Humayun Mohmand · #87 **Top** 11-01-2010, 11:29 AM

Dear Bill
I do agree with you. I should not have been so irrational and without knowing that the person who is saying this could be any one.
So I apologize Dr Madhu in public and I should have asked him or rather not commented at all.
So please accept my apology.

Dr M Humayun Mohmand · #88 **Top** 11-01-2010, 11:38 AM

Just to clarify one more thing.
My reply was in general for who ever do such practice and as I do not know whether Dr Madhu has any of such practice so I feel sorry that my comment has been taken in the wrong direction.
It's a general rule.
Dr Madhu, I believe in my true spirit that you are not doing such thing and I apologize for a reply that you might hav taken it more personal.
But they reflect my personal feeling not against any individual.

Bill - Managing Publisher · #89 **Top** 11-01-2010, 12:12 PM

Dr. Mohmand,

I appreciate you taking the time to clarify your posts. I'm sure Dr. Madhu (as I do) will appreciate that you're just trying to look out for this community.

All the Best,

Bill

Dr.Madhu · #90 **Top** 11-02-2010, 06:11 AM

Dear all,

Regarding the ISO Certification:

We have been practicing in Hyderabad from the last 2 and half years; previously we used to practice in a small town called Rajahmundry. The ISO management has their own norms in giving certification and they have taken one year to issue me the certificate, now and then they come for audit and check for the standard operating procedures laid down and update us with audit report.

Personal matter:

Unfortunately I cannot type lengthy letters and cannot use very good English also, which sometimes hampers me to convey my exact meaning.

Regarding Payment issues:

You can have a look at our website by clicking the following link Hair Transplant Cost | Dr.Madhu:::Hair Transplant Surgeon, India- Hyderabad regarding charges & taxes

We generally oppose checks or cards, which are not having sufficient balance in them. We encourage paying by cash/DD/online transfers. It is not an issue for us in giving you a receipt for the amount you paid.

Generally we ask the people to pay 40% of the amount before the procedure and 60% immediately after the surgery. There might have been some miscommunication that might have happened. I do regret this.

Today, once again I’ll instruct my staff to provide the information properly, clearly, responsibly and with transparency without giving any chance for any sort of suspicions.

Actually I thought of voluntarily to come out of this forum after seeing the first post of my colleague Dr.Mohmand, because in general I am a peace loving person and I don’t want to indulge myself in disputes.

What I believe

Our slogans in the hospital are “Think Positive”, “Do Positive”. “Om Shanti Shanti Shanti” which means “Peace everywhere”.

I strongly believe in quotes like” Truth will Win” and “Forgive & Forget”.

For any further queries feel free to contact me.

Regards,
Dr.Madhu.

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