Hello all,

I apologize ahead of time for this long post. I'll just say that ANY subjective or medical advice is greatly appreciated. I feel like I'm a unique case in hair loss--you can call me crazy, but please offer advice if you have any. I'll start by asking the questions that I need the answers to, and then please scroll down if you'd like to read my story.

A. Does anyone have any negative experiences they can provide regarding LONG-TERM Propecia side effects that absolutely did not subside?

B. Does anyone have any estimate of what the real percentages of long-term Propecia users who experience side effects might be (i.e. not the inaccurate numbers provided my Merck)? What are the percentages for whom these side effects did not desist after they quit the drug?

C. Does anyone know of cases where side effects WORSENED after the drug was stopped? By this, I mean do people notice the side effects, quit the drug before they get too serious, only to notice that the side effects get worse afterwords?

I am a 23-year old male with what I believe is the beginning of slight MPB. It is absolutely not noticeable to anyone but me, and even the dermatologists only acknowledged it as "slight, if any, beginnings to a deepening widow's peak." I know my hair, though, and this is a significant change from two years ago. I estimate anywhere from 150-250 hairs shed per day--also a significant increase. Between my male family members--my father, two grandfathers, two uncles--only ONE of them has any indication of MPB (which is my uncle, and he is certain it did not start in him until his early 30's).

I took Propecia (1mg finasteride) for one month, and then stopped taking it two weeks ago. I took it because two of the most prominent dermatologists on the west coast of the U.S. said they had prescribed it for years without any more than 2-3% negative side effects in their patients (as the manufacturer, Merck, asserts to be the case). This goes in complete contrast to some of the online subjective accounts of Propecia usage (on forums such as propeciahelp.com). Also, on these forums, it discusses that some Swiss international medical review company recently classified UNREMITTING erectile dysfunction as a possible negative side effect (which the FDA and Merck do not acknowledge). European manufacturers are now required to include this as a side effect.

During my 4-weeks on Propecia, I thought I noticed a consistent ~10% decrease in libido. This was immediate: 2-days in I noticed it, and then it leveled off. Also, possible tiredness or loss of motivation (another side effect not acknowledged by Merck or the FDA, but prevalently discussed in the online help forums). NO NOTICEABLE DECREASE IN HAIR LOSS, but that's to be expected with only a 4-week dosage.

(For this next part, you can think I'm crazy, but please still offer advice, if you have any, other than stay in therapy.) Here's the rub: I also suffer from very serious obsessive compulsive disorder, from about the age of 8 or 9. It royally screwed up my life, for a decade, until the age of 18 or 19, when I finally realized what was wrong with me, and opened up to a slew of psychiatrists and took SSRI's to get my obsessions under control. Basically every psychiatrist I've ever seen has told me I should have been institutionalized at some point. The OCD was also accompanied with serious depression and very serious anxiety. My life was essentially a (edited for profanity)for the first 17-18 years--I say that relatively unemotionally because I'm basically a different person now. That said, the ages of 20-22 were seriously looking up: I finally had my OCD to a point where it was present but not causing these horrible feelings, and went off the SSRI's (which I hate, they make me flat and apathetic, they might work for some but are horrible for me and will probably be replaced in 10 years due to side effects, as will Propecia), felt like a new person--like I was finally coming into my own, got entirely rid of the depression, managed the panic attacks with one-hit SSRI's. As anyone with severe OCD intrusive thoughts can tell you, it's hard to ever get a grasp on reality or block out some of the (edited for profanity) horrifying images or thought processes that go on. But other than that, I started feeling decent, for the first time in my life.

The (edited for profanity) dark and hilarious irony of all this is that I began to worry about my hairline receding WELL BEFORE it actually started to recede. Little to no familial history of it, I just got that one that in my head, and that was it. It penetrated every thought process: even my hypnosis sessions, which I used to treat the anxiety. For all I know (although my hypnotist swears this is impossible, and I think it probably is), I might have self-induced this by thinking about it compulsively under hypnosis two years ago. I didn't give a (edited for profanity) about it while I was on the SSRI's, but now that I'm trying to stop them, it eats away at me until I can't stand it.

This is the worst (edited for profanity) thing, I think about this (edited for profanity) day and night, it keeps me up at night, I can't focus, the depression and feelings of hopelessness return, I can't participate in activities sometimes over the past few months because the ONLY thing I can think about is this. I'd shave my head right now forever, but everyone who is aware of the situation says that if the obsession with it is that bad I need to be medicated. I'm trying to just lead a normal life without medication. And I think if I'm one of the people for whom Propecia does not effect negatively, that would be one of the last anxiety gateways for me to pass in this (edited for profanity) up procession that has been my life. I am more than okay with ~10% decrease in erection potential. I would SETTLE for a 50% decrease in libido, erectile potential, etc, if I just would never have to look at my hairline again. And if it (edited for profanity) receded, FINE, I don't give a (edited for profanity) then, just as long as I'm doing everything I can to prevent it. I know this is insane, but I can't and don't care to explain what goes on in my head. The two things that won't make it worth it are permanent ED and any sort of mental debilitation--I've had enough problems with my (edited for profanity) head to deal with anymore. Hence, why I asked question (C), does anyone know of instances when Propecia users detected prolonged and worsened side effects, after they stopped taking the drug? I am as in-tune as I can be with the side effects, so as long as I can stop them if I notice them worsening, I'm fine. But if there's some sort of rapid debilitation after stopping the drug when mental side effects are noticed, I'm (edited for profanity), and it looks like I'll just have to go back to the meds, probably.

Any help is appreciated. Sorry for this long post.

joebronson,

Welcome to our community.

Though I have yet to read through your entire post, I just had to edit your post for your use of profanity. As it says in our terms of service

"You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this software service to post any material which is of a commercial or promotional nature, knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law. You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or by this BB."

In the future, please refrain from using profanity in your posts.

Thanks,

Bill

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To learn about how I restored my hair, view my my hair loss website.

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I am not a medical professional and my words should not be taken as medical advice. All opinions and views shared are my own.

Joe, you're pushing very far.

The real percentage of such cases must be "extremely" low, but not completely impossible. There is a risk with any treatments.

Also, the psychological response to a symptom should not be dismissed. As an example; someone experiences erectile dysfunction at the onset of a treatment (not uncommon), panics, and stops the drug. Then focus (or obsess) on the possibility of suffering from that symptom again, only to trigger a psychological version of that same symptom. Common occurrence... ask any sexologist.

Sounds like you're developing a "mature hairline", and it's perfectly normal. The opposite would be abnormal, unless you're a woman.

I would definitely wait, or maybe use a bit of minoxidil on the hairline if you "really" want to use something (Minoxidil should be less of a focus point for your OCD).

My reasoning is that the positive effect of a medication should "at least" be superior to the negative effect, whether this negative effect is real or imaginary.

In that sense, I don't think you're ready to embark on finasteride.

Since there is a very small history of hairloss in your family, chance is really on your side.
Good luck

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.g...ed&pubmedid=17026771

Read this.It might be of use to you.

Swim

[quote]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SERIOUS:
Joe, you're pushing very far.

The real percentage of such cases must be "extremely" low, but not completely impossible. There is a risk with any treatments. [END QUOTE]



I disagree. He is not pushing far. I think he very well placed the question. Maybe you did not notice?

He said, " do people notice the side effects, quit the drug before they get too serious, only to notice that the side effects get worse afterwards?

So, conclusion, one can only know about will he or not get the side effects ,only after he gets them,(if he gets them) and they are very serious.

The reality about propecia is that 2% experienced side effects. Of those who stayed on the drug despite these, a lot of the sides resolved. After stopping the drug, sides went away - although it can take 3 months.

Merck had to conduct randomised clinical trials, which will have been reviewed by the fda prior to approval. Thay cannot lie about the results, they could bias them, but a good thorough analysis by the fda would have found that.

I prefer not to look online about sides from propecia - I prefer to stick to the evidence based data.

We know however, that with anxiety and OCD, there can be effects on libido and other similar things. My concern is that if you go on propecia again, you will experience these side effects because you are anxious about the prospect of getting them. This happened to me when I started propecia - but after I learned to stop myself from becoming anxious, I've never had a problem.

Good luck.

__________________
__________________________
On Propecia since July 2008 and maintaining.

Hi,
1. Propecia will not help you re-grow lost hair, it will ONLY speed down the lossing process.
2. Propecia has some effects on sex drive, it might go down after few months of use, as DHT (Dihydrotestosterone)5?±-Dihydrotestosterone
Here is some professional info on it:
(is a biologically active metabolite of the hormone testosterone, formed primarily in the prostate gland, testes, hair follicles, and adrenal glands by the enzyme 5?±-reductase by means of reducing the 4,5 double-bond. Dihydrotestosterone belongs to the class of compounds called androgens, also commonly called androgenic hormones or testoids. Androgens are part of the biology of gender by stimulating and controlling the development and maintenance of masculine characteristics. DHT is 3 times more potent than testosterone; testosterone is 5-10 times more potent than adrenal androgens.
While DHT is best known for its roles in causing male pattern hair loss and prostate problems, it is crucial to virilization and is necessary to mitigate estrogen's effects in men.)SO PROPECIA WILL BLOCK, AND SEX DRIVE MAY GO DOWN

__________________
I am a hair restoration physician.

Thanks for all of your responses. So many people also speak of the mental side effects of Propecia--has anyone here experienced these or heard about these?

Swim: Hey swim, I think you're swimming a bit too far, as usual.

The incidence of side effects that would "worsen" after stopping use must certainly be much below 0,1%. No official studies for these numbers, but since the official numbers for side effects "on" meds are around 2% (though debatable to a certain extent), trust me they should be "that" low for "worsening" after stopping.
(who's going to want to pay for a study with such an incredibly low incidence anyway).

So yes, he is pushing very far...

Like I would be pushing very far to worry about making a woman that is sterile pregnant while using a double condom and her using a contraceptive pill.

Hey Nida and Larry,

with all respect, 66 percent of people in the official propecia studies (reviewed by most worldwide health organizations including the FDA in the U.S.) had hair REGROWTH (that is two thirds (2/3) of the people, that means a whole lot of people).

Here are the official numbers:

In the clinical study of 535 men taking PROPECIA, 99% had visible results (growth or no further hair loss) after 2 years
?*?*?*?*?*??? 66% had visible re-growth of hair
?*?*?*?*?*??? 33% had no further hair loss
?*?*?*?*?*??? 1% had a visible decrease of hair

On a longer term, after 5 years: 48% had hair re-growth (still HALF of people), plus 42% no further hair loss...


Why are you spreading false information docs?

Just need some internet exposure?

On a minority of people...

Enough said.