Can someone post a link to Swagger's HT results? I'm curious.

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My Hair Loss Website - Hair Transplant with Dr. Hasson

Very few of us here have actual clinical research experience (ie., drug development), it is extremely rigourous to get thru Phase I, II, III clinical trials...For a REASON!!! Demonstration of Safety and Efficacy must be both clinical and statistical, that is why I really have a very difficult time with docs charging the study subject for treatments which have at best in vitro or anectdotal evidence (e.g., PRP).

HM needs another 10-15 years of development and probably an infusion of over a billion dollars or more of investment money before it has a chance of reaching the market.

I did not say the Study Subject pays the BILLION dollars, that is the risk of the investor.

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Dec. 2004 - 1938 Grafts via Strip
Feb. 2009 - 1002 Grafts via FUE

Hi Maxxy,
Let me preface any statement by saying that I am FAR from an expert on stem cells, et al. However, I majored in Evolutionary Biology in undergrad, and did have to take quite a few classes dealing with embryology and even worked in a few labs studying relevant cellular mechanisms. So, I'm not without knowledge on the subject, but if I say incorrect things or have some lack in knowledge, I will defer to people who know more. I don't really want to get into it too much, so I'll focus on what Histogen is doing (by the way, their projected date is now 2015):

1. The first, biggest problem I see is cost. Making this HSC syrum (which to me, seems like it's essentially just a ton of signaling proteins that cause different germ tissue stimulation in a LOT of different ways in embryos)is going to be highly regulated, costly, and probably take a while. The company isn't going to eat this cost ... the consumer is. It isn't like a finasteride pill.

2. Honestly, I took a course one time that was strict, hardcore embryology with a Professor who was arguably the brightest in the field. We spent so much time detailing every single way that signaling molecules (such as WNT proteins) activate processes in embryos, and how very specific types of signaling molecules in very specific amounts were needed to make sure things were induced, cycled, etc, properly. We also spent a lot of time studying the pathology/analyzing the results of when these processes went wrong (ie birth defects). It's amazing how inappropriate amount of these molecules can cause big, big harm, and I'd personally be reluctant to inject what seem to be randomly assigned, and improperly studied amounts of this into my body. I also do not think, if these injections circulate whatsoever, this procedure could be done on a fertile female. I'm not sure the side effects have really been studied here. Unknown growth patterns and stimulating incorrect cellular development doesn't sound good to me, especially when, in what the molecules are naturally used for, the processes are so complex, outcomes can be so severe, and frankly, the research is still ongoing about exactly how all these mechanisms work in embryos.

3. Another mystery to me, is whether or not these new follicles will be DHT resistant? If the new follicles, unlike those harvested from the occipital area, are not resistant to androgenetic alopecia, then what is the point? The expensive new follicles will still be subject to miniaturization and loss from DHT, and you'll be worse off than a transplant/still on finasteride/minoxidil to prevent loss.

4. I assume the results you are talking about are listed here: http://www.histogen.com/aboutus/news_events.htm#22

Let me first say that it is promising that they are seeing growth! However, I think it's difficult to gauge how well this would work on a large scale (ie something that needs a mega session), and unless I am reading the results wrong, the 3 month mark showed a decrease in native hair + a thinning of the hair follicle? This, to me, indicates that the cocktail in the HSC isn't specific enough, and could be causing some secondary reaction, which like I said, is my biggest fear.

5. Stem cell research/regenerative medicine is one of the biggest 'great white hopes' in science right now. Some of the greatest minds in the world are working on it, and we WILL figure it out eventually. However, I don't think the break through will come from Histogen. I think someone working on using/cultivating the stem cells for something else will implement them in a big way (ie cancer, MS - with more general pluripotent mechanisms), and from there, things like using them for hair loss will follow. I personally see Histogen, not that there is anything wrong with this, as a biotech company with an eye towards profit, not a strict research facility, which is where I think the big changes/ideas will come from.

Again, it is NOT my intent to belittle or insult Histogen, I really have no agenda here, and I do apologize if I am off in any of these assessments ... anyone can correct my statements at anytime. Just my two cents though ...

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Blake (Future_HT_Doc)

Forum Co-Moderator and Editorial Assistant for the Hair Transplant Network, the Hair Loss Learning Center, the Hair Loss Q&A Blog, and the Hair Restoration Forum

All opinions are my own and my advice should not constitute as medical advice.

Oh and one more thing ... I think obtaining FDA approval will be a nightmare (if this is a route they are trying to take).

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Blake (Future_HT_Doc)

Forum Co-Moderator and Editorial Assistant for the Hair Transplant Network, the Hair Loss Learning Center, the Hair Loss Q&A Blog, and the Hair Restoration Forum

All opinions are my own and my advice should not constitute as medical advice.

Hey Future_HT_Doc,

Thank you for taking the time to post your views in detail.

I didn't notice the part regarding a decrease in native hair though. I don't find that surprising as I'm assuming the tests were being carried out on balding men.

The last I read (which was a recent statement), mentioned 2012 for Asia and I believe 2015 for the US as possible dates.

what's the downside of having a HT now while you wait / hope / pray for HM? am I missing something here?

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My Hair Loss Website - Hair Transplant with Dr. Simmons

the downside would be that HM never comes to fruition, while back in 2010 you blew your available donors on an over aggressive HT...

BUT that being said, i'm huge on hope and faith, and my number two thing i have hope and faith in is that this whole thing with HM will work

no 1 being that i gain a special power such as flight or invisibility

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my reg is:

propecia 1mg EVERYDAY
minox 5% twice daily (f the foam)
nizoral 1%

say la V old buddies .... i'm tryin to keep you

Double post via freezing internet ... sorry!

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Blake (Future_HT_Doc)

Forum Co-Moderator and Editorial Assistant for the Hair Transplant Network, the Hair Loss Learning Center, the Hair Loss Q&A Blog, and the Hair Restoration Forum

All opinions are my own and my advice should not constitute as medical advice.

It's no problem! You also bring up a very good point that the reduction in native hair and shrinking shaft diameters could be from further loss and miniaturization.

__________________
Blake (Future_HT_Doc)

Forum Co-Moderator and Editorial Assistant for the Hair Transplant Network, the Hair Loss Learning Center, the Hair Loss Q&A Blog, and the Hair Restoration Forum

All opinions are my own and my advice should not constitute as medical advice.